WSS Signature Opinions?

[SJP]

2

[Brian R]

Steve - Thanks for posting the additional images.

These documents have many of the same "tell's" as others posted here on the forum and from what I've seen at the Max & SOS ... all can be traced back to Europe (IMO)

Can you elaborate on the "tells" other than what appears to be a very minor variation of a stamp?

Please understand that I am not trying to say these are definitely original documents. However, the rationale for why they are fake is not convincing. Perhaps part of this is my inexperience with WSS ciations. I have hundreds of Iron Cross award documents but only two are WSS (and one of those is an SS Flak Abteilung attached to a Heer unit). At this point, this is an educational issue for me. I know EK docs well. But, if these are fake, then collecting just got a lot scarier.

[kuratorium]

I've been looking high and low for a Kav. Division stamp. I found one - but I think it is the one you posted. It's on an Eastern People's Award Document?


Also, here is the GAB citation that comes with the Fegelein document. It is signed by Gesele, although I don't have anything to compare it to. The units, dates and FP stamp all seem to match.

No, it´s on a EK1 document.
And- please sorry, but the "Gesele" document is IMHO also bad...

[kuratorium]

But, if these are fake, then collecting just got a lot scarier.

Disagree.
You only have to constantly learn and store all images of original documents and stamps in your archives for a possible comparison.
And of course -
if we show the original stamps in a large, high-quality resolution, the copy detection will always harder and harder ...

[kuratorium]

These documents have many of the same "tell's" as others posted here on the forum and from what I've seen at the Max & SOS ... all can be traced back to Europe (IMO)

100% agree!
BTW- here is another original Mühlenkamp´s signature from May 1944:

[kuratorium]

Here they are as best as I can post them. They don't seem to be from the same printing even if they are from state printers. I see no red flags with this.

The images are the best I have as I don't actually have the documents in my possession.

Maybe I´m wrong, but IMHO it´s a very suspicious. Two documents that are separated by more than a year and are with absolutely identical misprints? In Germany at that time were printed thousands of these documents, so it is just a coincidence?

[max history]

In my opinion, the doubts expressed here over authenticity are well justified. The Mühlenkamp and Fegelein signatures appear drawn and the Gesele signature is an awful fake.
Max.

[Brian R]

No, it´s on a EK1 document.
And- please sorry, but the "Gesele" document is IMHO also bad...

That makes two examples with a different stamp; the EK1 and the Eastern Peoples award.

And, I agree about the Gesele signature. It is not fluid at all. It was drawn.

I appreciate all the feedback. This has been a good learning experience. Award documents are different than other militaria. It's the history that is usually the most important. The units, the dates, the signing authority, the document type - all are right on these. This faker did his homework, but it's the tiniest details that show their true colors.

Thanks again,
Brian

[kuratorium]

BTW - here you go another fake "Gesele" citation:Click!

[Brian R]

Excellent. Thanks for posting. I think this fake came from the same place as the others. And this guy loves to use that fill-in-the-blank variant document. He has used it for a variety of awards.

[frankandfrank]

Yes, clearly fake !