Hi. Maybe somebody can help me out and put some light on this. I was offered a really interesting item. A glass negative from a mug shot of an inmate in Auschwitz. These negatives were made to preserve the inmate photos during the nazi management of the KZ or they were made after the war by museum staff to preserve them? I know that glass negative technique is very old and it is completely old fashioned, but I don't know if they were made after the liberation of the camp, which makes this item not as attractive as if it was done by the nazis pre 45. I attach 2 photos, the negative and the positive. It is a woman from the camp. As you can see the glass negative is from a photo taken from a document, maybe a file, with the mug shot of the prisoner attached to it.
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museum stolen item. -
bad link.....Originally posted by besslein View PostUnless it was nighttime, or the weather was bad, and you were running out of gas - then it was a sweaty nightmare, like a monkey f*ing a skunk.
~ Dan Hampton, Viper PilotComment
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Glass negatives for bellows cameras is still available then ,and even today. This appears someone may be a camera bug, and took a shot of a print of a three position original developed file print , possibly to keep the original prisoner mug shot to be able to copy it many times on a glass negative , and be able to sell the glass negatives over and over to those who are not camera bugs or who are ignorant , and do it over and over again from the same file photo. Whomever is offering this to you may just be a camera bug also, and still uses bellows cameras as a hobby, and just may be using the old style format to fool buyers and make a lot of money, since few people other than camera collectors would know little about glass negatives. Likewise there are still film available for different size period press cameras like speed graphics as there is for minox spy cameras etc. You need to tell us more about where this slide comes from which country, and if you know anything about the seller as to if he is a camera bug...as in ww2 there were much easier modern film cameras available everywhere in Germany, and would be too time consuming to use such a antiquated to be practical. Subjects had to remain still for long periods of time , but to take a shot of an already made positive would give you glass negative to sell to people who think they are getting something rare , so do...Tell us more as many ask questions here but do not divulge all they know , and that many times leaves us at a deficit to provide a common sense educated answer, but only just a guess ? That is my opinion that if this slide is expensive you may just be in chump position .
proceed with caution, I think if you look at the thumbtacks holding the photo this is a glass negative from a picture taken as I said of a picture. If under 5.00 buy it, if not I would pass as you now have a copy worth as much without having to purchase the glass negative from the slide to keep.Only the original paper print or celluloid negative is worth anything. I have never seen a prisoner regulation bandana,and looks like it is to match the issue clothing.
Last edited by juoneen; 01-18-2013, 09:49 PM.Comment
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Might it have been made by a Relief organization who was registering inmates who had just been liberated? That could explain the head scarf. And I'm not sure the Germans who have bothered photographing inmates when they had the tattoo system.Comment
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The camp's Erkennungsdienst (photographic ID unit) took photographs of the prisoners. Wilhelm Brasse, a German-Polish inmate who had been trained in the art of photography, took, according to his own estimates, some 40,000 to 50,000 ID pictures between 1940 and 1945. It has been estimated that around 200,000 identity pictures were taken, of which some 40,000 or so survive. Furthermore, the format shown below, i.e. the three images (L-R), firstly side-on profile, followed by front on portrait and finally another front on shot, this time with the head looking toward the right and with headwear present, is also correct. This three image pattern was standard.Originally posted by randy@treadways View Post
Regards,
CarlComment
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Great information Carl.
Why did they have the photos taken?
I presume for the prisoners working in the outside factories rather than the complex itself?
Regards,
Chris.Comment
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Interesting
It reminds me of the photos taken of prisoners of the Khymer Rouge in Cambodia in the mid seventies. There is records of this type used as evidence when proceeding with War Crimes Trials.
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I did know that those mug shots were taken during the existence of the camp, but what I need to know is if those glass negatives are pre 45 or post war made. Besslein says they are museum stolen pieces. The fact is that these negatives are from photos taken from a file with the original mug shot. If someone knows anything please let me know.Comment
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Apparently, Mr. Brasse died recently-Originally posted by carltiger View Post
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2011578.html
When I visited Auschwitz in 2003, the guide mentioned that photography of inmates ceased well before the liberation (for a number of reasons).
I agree that the negative shown is of existing photos on a document, and not the original plate that went through the camera- and has little value.
Regards,
Kent G.Comment
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We are educating ourselves along with the way, while the answer to your basic question is our their somewhere perculating.Originally posted by Gernika81 View Post
It will come in time (not every subject matter expert checks in here every day).
The "factory assignment" photos make sense. If they would be transported outside the basic camp area to a factory, they probably needed a picture identification.
I can also visualize the thousands of people getting off the trains and going through the selection lines. If you get sent to the gassing, no picture. Otherwise you get processed, tattooed, registered, photoed, and assigned to a barrack building.
Also, I wonder about those lists of hundreds of thousands or millions of names today, and many say 'gassed on arrival'. Was this actually recorded by the Germans, or have later researchers concluded it by comparing lists of who was put onto the trains at their embarkation point, versus who got registered and tattooed after they arrived? This would mean that some who are now shown as gassed, actually died in the cattle cars en route, and there is no way to know which unless somebody else in the railroad car survived and told about it, or somebody actually saw them standing in the selection waiting line.Comment
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Yes, I know that the glass negative isn't from the original photo or mug shot of the inmate. That's obvious, as it can be perfectly seen that it is a photo of a mug shot attached to a card or a file. But the question is: were these glass negatives done by nazis who ruled the camp pre 45 or maybe they were made by post war 1947 (museum was established in 1947) Polish authorities who wanted to preserve those mug shots? Maybe I should get in contact with the museum and ask about this. It's a complete mystery to me. Depending on that, it could have a great historical value or not.Comment
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Perhaps we can simply ask ourselves.. why would the Germans who ruled the camp pre 45 want to make glass negatives of the photos already attached in books or on cards, when presumably they had the original negatives and the cards or books themselves? Lack of any apparent motive sometimes points us in the direction of the likely answer.Originally posted by Gernika81 View PostComment
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Agreed
Agreed, it just doesn't make sense. More likely a preparation for some post war documentation.Comment
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