Are these Bundesarchiv photos, how can I find out?

[Jean-Loup]

Hi guys

While browsing various internet forums and facebook ( http://www.facebook.com/pages/La-C%C...82771455146511 ) , I have come across a few very nice photos taken on the French Riviera showing German troops in 1944. I would be interested to use these photos in the book I am just finnishing up, but the problem is that the source of these photos is not known to me. On the internet people just post stuff without saying a single word on where the photo comes from or who the rights belong to...

Anyways, these two photos look highly professional to me, and I suspect they may belong to the Bundesarchiv. Is there any way to find out?

[jmark]

The second photo seems to be from the NAFA BildArchiv in Norway:

http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewto...p?f=26&t=27475

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...?f=48&t=156181

The way I discovered this was to use an incredible but little known function in Google. Simply click "Images" (top left) and in the search box you will see a little camera icon. Clicking this will bring up a new box that says "Search by image. Search Google with an image instead of text." You can upload an image from your desktop (I just downloaded your two pics and then uploaded them into this search).

Your first pic only appears in two forums. I guess trying writing to the person that posted them.

Hope that helps.
Jason

[Jean-Loup]

Great function indeed!! This will be very helpfull to me.
Is is possible to search for Bundesarchiv photos without actualy going there physically?

Jean-Loup

[jmark]

Is is possible to search for Bundesarchiv photos without actualy going there physically?

The only photos they have online are ones that people have already ordered. All images that I used in my books were not online before I actually went to Koblenz, searched through the contact sheets and then ordered digital copies. There is no period of exclusivity: the photos I pay for are uploaded to the Bildarchiv online database – visible to everyone – and that is where I download them for use in my books. This annoys me a bit but there's nothing I can do.

So, to answer your question, you can search their online database and may find a few photos, but to comprehensively search their photographic holdings, you need to physically go there. At least you're much closer than me!

Bundesarchiv have different conditions to use their photos, but if you want to use it in a publication (print run less than 3000), the cost per photo is about EUR 16,00. This is very cheap when compared to other archives and photo libraries.

Jason

[Jean-Loup]

Thank you for the detailed explanation Jason.
I may be closer to them, but have no funds at all to invest in such a trip at the moment unfortunately...
15 euros to use for 3000 prints is indeed a great and resonable price; much better then when the ECPAD asks you for 150 or so for photos that shouldnt even belong to them in the first place.
NARA is still the best though, asking nothing at all.

[Tora_Tora_Tora!]

The only photos they have online are ones that people have already ordered. All images that I used in my books were not online before I actually went to Koblenz, searched through the contact sheets and then ordered digital copies. There is no period of exclusivity: the photos I pay for are uploaded to the Bildarchiv online database – visible to everyone – and that is where I download them for use in my books. This annoys me a bit but there's nothing I can do.

So, to answer your question, you can search their online database and may find a few photos, but to comprehensively search their photographic holdings, you need to physically go there. At least you're much closer than me!

Bundesarchiv have different conditions to use their photos, but if you want to use it in a publication (print run less than 3000), the cost per photo is about EUR 16,00. This is very cheap when compared to other archives and photo libraries.

Jason

Jason! Thank you so much for the description almost unknown to me but checking with my google I cannot find the camera icon...maybe is the mine flu effect...sorry!

[jmark]

Jason! Thank you so much for the description almost unknown to me but checking with my google I cannot find the camera icon...maybe is the mine flu effect...sorry!

Here's some screen caps from my computer. The camera icon is in the search box. It's easy to miss. When you click on it, you then get a new box (shown in my second screencap). You can paste a URL of a photo or click the link and upload a photo from your computer. This tool is incredibly powerful because the search is based on the image itself, not file name or META tags. Try it with any photo. I experimented by uploading a personal family photo, which I knew was not on the Internet, and it found similar photos (same background colours, layout, etc.).

Jason

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[jmark]

15 euros to use for 3000 prints is indeed a great and resonable price; much better then when the ECPAD asks you for 150 or so for photos that shouldnt even belong to them in the first place.
NARA is still the best though, asking nothing at all.

ECPAD is ridiculously expensive, so I don't use them, which is unfortunate because they have some great photos. There's some sort of sweetheart deal between Heimdal and ECPAD, which is why Heimdal is able to release so many photo volumes.

[jmark]

For those that don't know, here is the link to the Bundesarchiv's online photo database (almost 200,000 military images available):

http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/

And a link to their costs:
http://www.bundesarchiv.de/imperia/m...verordnung.pdf

To use one photo, it costs EUR 15,34 for a 3000 book print-run, EUR 25,56 for 5000 and EUR 35,79 for 25,000 copies. Very reasonable rates!

Sorry to hi-jack your thread, Jean-Loup!
Jason

[Jean-Loup]

No, this isnt high jacking, it is exactly the information that I want.

How exactly do you arrange payment with them? Just by filling this in and sending it, then waiting for the bill to come: http://www.bild.bundesarchiv.de/file...antragBild.pdf

What I dont understand on this form is that it doesnt ask you waht pictures you are planing on using though...
Are you supposed to pay before or after the book is actualy published?

JL

[jmark]

How exactly do you arrange payment with them? Before or after printing? Because it is hard to know how many copies of the book will be printed, or if it will ever be printed at all, untill it actualy is printed.

Bundesarchiv will charge you as if you were going to use them for publication. Years ago, they had two charges: a low initial charge (DM 2 or 3 per photo) to obtain the photos, and a higher follow-up charge when the photo was published. What they discovered was that many people were paying for the photo prints and then using them in books without paying the publication fees. So, what they do now is charge everyone as if they were going to use them in books. If you want a hi-res image from them, you're going to have to pay a minimum of EUR 15,34 per photo (plus a few other minor costs).

Jason

[Jean-Loup]

So if I download a picture and pay the 15 euros, it is understood that I can use that photo for my publication?
In that case what is the request of use for, particularly since it doesnt specify what you want to use?

Sorry to be asking a bunch of stupid questions, but it just doesnt seem very clear, an they contradict themselfs sometimes:
-please fax or send request of of use by mail, then elsewhere it says to faw or email.
-no photos can be used for free, but then it says the ones of wikimedia can be used for free.

[jmark]

Correct, by paying 15 EUR to download each hi-res photo, you can use it in a publication. However, in all cases, you need to lodge a request to inform them what project/book you'll be using the photo for. They just don't let anyone download photos and use them.

Jason

[Jean-Loup]

OK, so I have to register, which enables me to download the photos I want in high res, and at the same time I will be filling in a questionaire that informs them that I am going to be using the photo?

Thanks a lot Jason, you have been very helpful.

[Tora_Tora_Tora!]

Here's some screen caps from my computer. The camera icon is in the search box. It's easy to miss. When you click on it, you then get a new box (shown in my second screencap). You can paste a URL of a photo or click the link and upload a photo from your computer. This tool is incredibly powerful because the search is based on the image itself, not file name or META tags. Try it with any photo. I experimented by uploading a personal family photo, which I knew was not on the Internet, and it found similar photos (same background colours, layout, etc.).

Jason

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Thank you so much Jason but here it is impossible to see. I tried too to log on on google.com.au like yours but, as default, it gives to me the italian language where there isn't any camera....
What a pity!
Thank you so much in any case!!