Robert Ley Autograph

[cerick1450]

Hi all.

What do you think of this Robert Ley autograph? It is dated July 2nd 1945. Can anyone translate it as well?

Thanks
Charlie

[randy@treadways]

Something about ...'the culture and the civilization may not perish.'

It looks like it is written on a standard American 3 x 5 card.

[cerick1450]

Hi

Thanks for the responce. Any idea what the first part says ???? Allem??
Also, how does the autograph look to you? Authentic??

Charlie

[cerick1450]

I just realized that it is allem for "all". Still can't make out the first word?

Charlie

[Oberdonau]

Trotz allem ...


kind regards
Oberdonau

I just realized that it is allem for "all". Still can't make out the first word?

Charlie

[cerick1450]

What are the two words after Zivilisation? Also, Any comments on the autograph authenticity?

Thanks
Charlie

[randy@treadways]

What are the two words after Zivilisation?

I thought it was dürfen nicht

[cerick1450]

Thanks forthe help. I have a hard time reading the handwriting. Here it is:
"Trotz allem Die kultur mal Die zivilisation dürfen nicht untergehen"
"Despite all the times, the culture of civilization should not perish."
Any Comments on the authenticity of the autograph???
Charlie
Charlie

[max history]

Looks real to me.
Max.

[Glowlight]

Charlie I like the signature. It has favorable characteristics for late Dr. Ley signatures. I do not profess to be an expert but based on the writing sample and the signature I like what I see based on other published examples of his writing.

[Gerdan]

The exact text is:

" Trotz allem, Die Kultur und die Zivilisation dürfen nicht untergenen "


Gerdan

[cerick1450]

Thanks for all the help. I do have one more question. What was he trying to say? Was he impying that the despite the third reich and it's desstruction, civilization survived??, Or is he refering to the German culture/naziism, and despite the loss of the war, it will survive? Comments??

Thanks
charlie

[Gerdan]

Despite of the loss of WW2 the (German) culture and civilization should not persish/get lost.


Gerdan

[Br. James]

An interesting question deriving from an interesting artifact, Charlie! The card was written more than a month after Robert Ley was arrested by USArmy forces and subsequently identified by his former colleague, Franz Xaver Schwarz. Ley hanged himself in his cell five months later on October 24, 1945 -- almost exactly a year earlier than the date of execution of the convicted war criminals that were his prisonmates -- and he thereby escaped having to go through the lengthy trial process. He must have seen his position in May of 1945 as a de facto condemnation. Ley chose to sign the card with his NSDAP title of Reichsleiter, as opposed to any of the other position titles he held during the years of the TR, so I think that says a lot about how he saw what he had recently been through and the bearing it had on history and the world around him.

Gerdan provides this translation for Ley's sentiment: "In spite of everything, the culture and the civilization should not be allowed to perish." Since he saw himself as continuing to hold the rank of Reichsleiter of the NSDAP when he wrote those words from prison, it seems clear to me that Ley's sentiment was that the National Socialist political culture and the so-called Aryan racial civilization must continue to endure into the future. Knowing as we do that he was among some of the earliest of Hitler's acolytes, holding NSDAP Membership Number 18441, this seems quite in keeping with the flow of Ley's life for the previous 20+ years.

Br. James

[max history]

Ley hanged himself in his cell five months later on October 24, 1945 -- almost exactly a year earlier than the date of execution of the convicted war criminals that were his prisonmates -- and he thereby escaped having to go through the lengthy trial process.
Br. James

A correction.........Ley did not hang himself in his cell. He used a towel, torn into strips and soaked in water to make himself a garrotte which he placed around his neck. He then attached the other end to the toilet pipe and sat on the toilet. By leaning himself forward in the sitting position, he was able to lose conciousness and slump forward, his body weight cutting off his air supply. Plainly a very effective method of suicide with limited resources and one which took a great deal of courage and determination. It is a common mistake that Ley's death is described as suicide by hanging, when in fact he died through self-garrotting.
Max.