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    #1

    Verleihungsurkunde vs. Besitzurkunde

    Ok, I'm confused. I keep seeing both of these words at the top of award docs, many times for the same type of award. I know the first translates literally to loan document the other to owner document. One seems to infer the award was loaned to the recipient the other seems to infer that it bestows ownership. Any idea as to how the two were viewed by the military?
    Richard V
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    #2
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    Last edited by Rick Research; 09-01-2004, 07:38 PM.

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      #3
      Something I have noticed but never really looked into...

      The meaning is more like:
      Verleihungsurkunde - Award bestowal certificate
      Besitzurkunde - Possession certificate

      Thinking about it, but not having any to hand! Isn't it the gallantry awards are Verleihungsurkunde and qualification awards such as wound badges and drivers badges etc. are Besitzurkunde.

      I will try and find some examples now!

      /Ian
      Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

      Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

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        #4
        Ach you beat me!
        Attached Files
        Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

        Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

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          #5
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          Last edited by Rick Research; 09-01-2004, 07:38 PM.

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            #6
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            Last edited by Rick Research; 09-01-2004, 07:39 PM.

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              #7
              Originally posted by Rick Research
              One does not cross the 15,000 posts milestone by being slow, muchacho!
              This is true but I tend to leave my PC once in a while

              Can we draw a definate picture of what was an award and what was possession then?

              I had a quick look at some documents...EK's for example were awarded, wound badges were possession, however Russian Front medals which I also thought would have been possession were acutally awarded!

              Maybe a minor project to find out what was what
              Photos/images copyright © Ian Jewison collection

              Collecting interests: Cavalry units, 1 Kavallerie/24 Panzer Division, Stukageschwader 1

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                #8
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                Last edited by Rick Research; 09-01-2004, 07:40 PM.

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                  #9
                  To add fuel to the fire, I have seen both these terms used for the same type of award. Is there an official difference if an award was issued with a Verleihungsurkunde or a Besitzurkunde? For example, if a badge were issued to one person with a Verleihungsurkunde did it have a differing value or meaning if the same award was presented to someone else with a Besitzurkunde?

                  Rick, your 40 year award document appears to refer to Verleihung or "loaning/bestowal" even though it is not named as a Urkunde or Zeugnis. Ian, this would seem to contradict your comment that qualification awards were Besitzurkunden as I would assume this to be a qualification award. Rick, I'm not surprised at your list with "Vorlaufiges" as this means preliminary or preceding and it would seem logical that this may have or should have been followed up by a regular award document.
                  Richard V

                  PS Rick, what the *ell is the wound badge document you're showing? It refers to a matte white wound badge not a silver. I've never seen this before. I assume it is for a silver wound badge. It appears that this document just entitles the recipient to wear the badge. It never seems to say he is awarded the badge.

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                    #10
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                    Last edited by Rick Research; 09-01-2004, 07:40 PM.

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