Soldbuch knight cross owner

[aktinium]

This soldier got a lot of decoration, but I do not feel that good with it.

He got the signs in a Stalag.

Does one of you know, what had happend with this man, or did he sign oll the deceration after the war in the soldbuch?

thanks for your help

Stefan

[aktinium]

pics

[Michael Miller]

...

Not sure this man actually (or at least formally) received the Ritterkreuz- there's no mention of a Kostrewa at www.das-ritterkreuz.de.
~ Mike

[D. Löwenhamn]

Neither is Wilhelm Peters or Emil Hilber although they received the Knight's cross. I'm hopeful. A tip would be to write an enquiry to Bundesarchiv, they should have information about him and might be able to confirm or deny the awards.

Best regards/ Daniel

By the way, that's a very interesting Soldbuch you have.

[Edward]

Hello Aktinium,

Very interesting and very late war Zweitschrift Soldbuch. I could not find a Kostrewa listed for the Deutschen Kreuze. From the scans the Soldbuch looks okay, but there are a number of things about it that are unusual and will require some research.

Regards

[aktinium]

As I can read, the nummer of the STALAG is 338

Has one of you more information of this STALAG?

Stefan

[JRA]

Stalag

Hello Stefan,

couldn't find anything on this man unfortunaly. I have found some info on the stalag:

<TABLE cellSpacing=3 cellPadding=2 bgColor=#ccffff border=0><TBODY><TR><TH class=gross bgColor=#ffffcc colSpan=5>Reichskommissariat Ukraine</TH></TR><TR><TH>Camp Lager Nr.</TH><TH>Location name 1939-1945</TH><TH>Location name current</TH><TH>Country today</TH><TH>Dates</TH></TR><TR><TD>Stalag 301</TD><TD>Kowel</TD><TD></TD><TD>Ukraine</TD></TR><TR><TD>Stalag 305</TD><TD>Kirowograd</TD><TD></TD><TD>Ukraine</TD></TR><TR><TD>Stalag 329</TD><TD>Winniza</TD><TD></TD><TD>Ukraine</TD></TR><TR><TD>Stalag 334</TD><TD>Belaja Zerkow</TD><TD></TD><TD>Ukraine</TD></TR><TR><TD>Stalag 338</TD><TD>Kriwoj Rog</TD><TD></TD><TD>Ukraine</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Regards,

Jeroen

As I can read, the nummer of the STALAG is 338

Has one of you more information of this STALAG?

Stefan

[Ian Jewison]

Very well decorated....it says he also had 47 close combat days!!!

Writing looks good to me......This definately needs further research to find out if it is the genuine thing or not!

It is difficult to tell the originality of these types of documents when they are in the same hand and so late in the war!!

Seems that he skipped a rank though!? From Oberfeldwebel straight to Oberleutnant!?!?!?!

Interestingly the German Cross is awarded the same day as a soldbuch I have to a Flak Hauptmann who won the German Cross......he also is not listed in any of the references however I do have a photo of him wearing the award!

Imediate award by unit and but not approved by OKW!?!??! This was quite a common occurance it would seem at closing stages of the war........
Without approval of OKW he technically is not entitled to it!!!

/Ian

[gilles]

Nice SB but there's one thing I don't like.All his decorations are written with a pen, but his RK is written with a pencil.And nobody knwos this RK-tragër

[Ian Jewison]

Nice SB but there's one thing I don't like.All his decorations are written with a pen, but his RK is written with a pencil.And nobody knwos this RK-tragër

Is it pencil or lighter coloured ink?

All the awards on page 22 would have been entered at the same time, however the DK (20.4.1945) and RK (7.5.1945) are later than the date of the Soldbuch being issued (17.4.1945)....that would explain different, pen, ink, hand writing etc.......

Doesn't mean they are original but worthy of authentication!!! Would be nice if they are

[Edward]

Is it pencil or lighter coloured ink?

All the awards on page 22 would have been entered at the same time, however the DK (20.4.1945) and RK (7.5.1945) are later than the date of the Soldbuch being issued (17.4.1945)....that would explain different, pen, ink, hand writing etc.......

Doesn't mean they are original but worthy of authentication!!! Would be nice if they are

Hello Ian,

Good observations. Just briefly looking over the scans a few things appear odd. First, condition. For such a late war SB...issue 17 April 45 it is in rough shape and looks like it has been used for far more many more years than it should. Although it could very well have gone through some hard times...Imo, those late war SB's that I have are all in much better shape, and all are to combatants ect... Second, awards page was retaped not once, but twice...and for a very late war second issue SB! This raises a flag. I agree with you that very late war entries were not always recorded ofifically, particularly the DKiG which I have seen as well. However, the RK entry remains very questionable. Third, the recepients photo. Although the recepients photo is BW, what color are his collar tabs? They look green or red to me, but would he be wearing such tabs if he was Fj para trained in Sept, 44? Maybe the Fj collectors can help on that one. Fourth, his only unit assignment is to FjR 16. What is the unit on page 3? Does belonging to both at such a late date, less than three weeks away from the end of the war make sense?

Regards

[Ian Jewison]

Hi Edward,
You mention his units....last field unit was Fj.Rgt. 16, however Soldbuch appears to have been made out by Stalag 338....

I am leaning towards the fact that if the book is genuine then the unit making the entries is not correct and that any stamp available was used as this Soldbuch was made up as a record of service only, more than likely due to the loss of his original Soldbuch....in reality he probably was a PoW by this stage?

However the document does not appear to be denazified!

Stalag 338...and signed by a Hauptmann und Ortskommandantur......not the rank of someone in charge of a Stammlager!!!

Is the entry for the Ritterkreuz over or under the Stalag 338 stamp? I would say it is over, but the DK entry is under!?!

Fj.Rgt.16 was no where near Stalag 338 at that time!?!?!!?!?

The Security check dated 17.4.1945 shows Kr.St.R.Nr. 784 which corresponds with page 4 and Fj.Ers.Btl. in Stendal....

The condition could be a factor but then I have some issued around this time that are nearly mint....at the same time I have some that are battered and in worse condition! Some of the wear and tear could be from the time....the other from how it has been stored over the past 59 years!...or artificially aged

A lot of questions...............

/Ian

[Ian Jewison]

Looking again....perhaps it is denazified as the Swastikas do not seem very clear in any of the stamps except the inside cover over the photo!

Obviously the front cover remains untouched........

[Stijn David]

Soldbuch

Hello,


This one is certainly one that is controversial but it is worth it to write a letter towards the Bundesarchive and request more info on this person.

Iff he was a officer then there will probably exist a personal file of this soldier (as far as i know there are still Luftwaffe officers files with the exception for soldiers who where KIA before the end of the war or who have entered military service again with the Bundeswehr)

Write this persons last rank, name, place of birth, etc ... etc ... and then all you can do is await and hope !!!

Cordial greetings,

[Simon O.]

With regard to the waffenfarbe, isn't the fourth award entry for the Flakkampfabzeichen? That would explain red collar tabs.

Shouldn't he have the Erdkampfabzeichen too?

What of the Schutzenschnur (sp.) , should that be recorded in the SB?


Definitely worth looking for his records at the WASt.