AH wax seal

[lohengrin]

Hello guys,

Yesterday, a fellow collector and a retired advisor to a leading auction house based in Munich, offered me a set of wax seals, which (according to him) belonged to Adolf Hitler and were removed from his office/residence in Munich's Prinzregentenplatz 16 (according to his description by someone called Schissler). Apparently, the seals can be seen in some period photos. They were in two private collections and there is a letter from the prior owner describing their origin. He would like to trade them for a set of fairly rare photos worth about 1000 - 1200 EUR (but most importantly these photos have a sentimental value for him). I am willing to do this, since we did some nice business in the past and have a good relationship...

So, here are my questions:

Anyone knows anything about these seals? Have you ever seen these before? If they are indeed original, what would be their worth and is there a market for such items?

Thanks for all your help!


Mark

[lohengrin]

Here is another photo...

[Oberbootsmann]

They look old, they look important but ...

... has someone ever seen a formal document / letter sealed with Hitlers initials?

Btw., if they really should have belonged to Adolf Hitler you can add calmly and with a clear conscience another "0" (zero) to their value.

Regards

[randy@treadways]

It could be one of those stamps that people used to use to mark the flyleaf of a book to claim it for their 'library'.

[Simon O.]

and could be anyone else with those initials.


provenance and evidence of their use, otherwise it's just a story.

[lohengrin]

Thanks for the replies...

As I mentioned before, I know ZERO about seals, stamps etc. The current owner of these has sold and traded a lot of photos to me, I am talking close to 1000 items!! Always has been very dependable and able to source the most amazing stuff. When it comes to photos, I trust him completely. However, such items are new to me. I very much doubt that he would jeopardize our relationship and his reputation to scam me (and as I know a lot of other collectors, he would make himself essentially a persona non-grata). So anyway, to avoid further replies as Simon's (e.g. these could belong to any A.H. on the planet, worthless without provenance), let's assume that the story is likely...

a) Has anyone seen ANY personal correspondence from AH's Munich office that was sealed (I assume these are wax seals)?
b) Does anyone has ANY photos showing the AH's office on Prinzregentenplatz 16?
c) Any idea how was this "Schissler" was/is?
d) Has any collector encountered these before?
e) What would the value be (The auction house that my friend is associated with, sold a lot of other AH items from the same period, such as his table lamp and reading glasses)?

Thanks for all replies. As I said, I don't know anything at all about such items, thus any clues would be appreciated!

Mark

[lohengrin]

It could be one of those stamps that people used to use to mark the flyleaf of a book to claim it for their 'library'.

Thanks! I check on that...

[90th Light]

Goering's wax seal,

Chris

[90th Light]

Count von Zeppelin's wax seal in case,

Chris

[max history]

Thanks for the replies...

As I mentioned before, I know ZERO about seals, stamps etc. The current owner of these has sold and traded a lot of photos to me, I am talking close to 1000 items!! Always has been very dependable and able to source the most amazing stuff. When it comes to photos, I trust him completely. However, such items are new to me. I very much doubt that he would jeopardize our relationship and his reputation to scam me (and as I know a lot of other collectors, he would make himself essentially a persona non-grata). So anyway, to avoid further replies as Simon's (e.g. these could belong to any A.H. on the planet, worthless without provenance), let's assume that the story is likely...

a) Has anyone seen ANY personal correspondence from AH's Munich office that was sealed (I assume these are wax seals)?
b) Does anyone has ANY photos showing the AH's office on Prinzregentenplatz 16?
c) Any idea how was this "Schissler" was/is?
d) Has any collector encountered these before?
e) What would the value be (The auction house that my friend is associated with, sold a lot of other AH items from the same period, such as his table lamp and reading glasses)?

Thanks for all replies. As I said, I don't know anything at all about such items, thus any clues would be appreciated!

Mark

Your friend is obviously acting in good faith, but that does not mean that someone has not duped him. Simon's reply, along with all the others, is valid and should not be disregarded.
As far as the bookplate suggestion is concerned, it is extremely doubtful that these were used to indicate ownership of a book from Hitler's library. His bookplate is well known.
Items from the Prinzregentenplatz apartment nearly always have written provenance from Hitler's housekeeper, Frau Anni Winter, who obligingly provided post-war confirmation of authenticity of items from the apartment. And although the reputation of the auction house you mention is excellent, not everything that has passed through it has been unquestionably authentic.
My answers to your questions are.......
a) no;
b) yes, but no seals;
c) no;
d) no;
e) not known.
Personally, I do not know if the seals are genuine, but you should ask yourself why would Hitler use wax? It's out of character and I would be very sceptical as to their authenticity. Having said that, I'm never surprised to discover new artefacts.
Good luck,
Max.

[lohengrin]

Your friend is obviously acting in good faith, but that does not mean that someone has not duped him. Simon's reply, along with all the others, is valid and should not be disregarded.
As far as the bookplate suggestion is concerned, it is extremely doubtful that these were used to indicate ownership of a book from Hitler's library. His bookplate is well known.
Items from the Prinzregentenplatz apartment nearly always have written provenance from Hitler's housekeeper, Frau Anni Winter, who obligingly provided post-war confirmation of authenticity of items from the apartment. And although the reputation of the auction house you mention is excellent, not everything that has passed through it has been unquestionably authentic.
My answers to your questions are.......
a) no;
b) yes, but no seals;
c) no;
d) no;
e) not known.
Personally, I do not know if the seals are genuine, but you should ask yourself why would Hitler use wax? It's out of character and I would be very sceptical as to their authenticity. Having said that, I'm never surprised to discover new artefacts.
Good luck,
Max.

Many thanks Max!

It is always good to be cautious. I understand Simon's reply, but I want the answers to be constructive and I do not want to see post like - "It is good in my onion" or "it is fake" and "it could belong to any AH on the face of the Earth"... Obvious and unhelpful replies are just waste of space and time! I do not learn anything at all from that. This said, I like Simon a lot and believe that (as yourself) is one of the greatest assets of this forum and a true expert on various topics relating to WWII history...

I know that AH had wax seals, because I do remember that I have seen a letter with it. Unfortunately, I can't recall where it was. I believe it was from earlier period though - mid 1920s. Also, as you can see from the post by 90th Light both HG and Zeppelin had one... (of course that may trace back to their aristocratic origins)...

Thanks again,

M.

[waldkraiburg]

Schissler was Hitler's janitor at the Munich residence.

See: http://www.thirdreichruins.com/munich.htm

You may want to look for this book - Collectors Guide to “Liberated” Adolf Hitler Memorabilia by Mark D. Griffith see here:http://www.germaniainternational.com/hitler19.html

Also read these articles: http://www.germaniainternational.com/gunofdestiny.html

Gives account of US GIs entering Hitler's residence.

http://www.hitlerpages.com/pagina16.html

office


http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...60867&start=45

[90th Light]

Hitler's wax seal,

Chris

[90th Light]

2 Hitler's wax seal,

Chris

[lohengrin]

Schissler was Hitler's janitor at the Munich residence.

See: http://www.thirdreichruins.com/munich.htm

You may want to look for this book - Collectors Guide to “Liberated” Adolf Hitler Memorabilia by Mark D. Griffith see here:http://www.germaniainternational.com/hitler19.html

Also read these articles: http://www.germaniainternational.com/gunofdestiny.html

Gives account of US GIs entering Hitler's residence.

http://www.hitlerpages.com/pagina16.html

office


http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...60867&start=45

Brilliant THANKS!