16 SS - Simon signed doc

[Lionel H.]

Hi Manalishi. IMO a perfect original.

[Manalishi]

Hi 708.V.G.D., thanks for the reply and the thumbs up. I was a little worried because it didn't have a stamp. Although come to find out, that isn't unusual.

Chris

[mufasa]

very nice addition!

[Lionel H.]

Hi 708.V.G.D., thanks for the reply and the thumbs up. I was a little worried because it didn't have a stamp. Although come to find out, that isn't unusual.

Chris

Tks Chris. The lack of Stamp can be a problem, but you can encounter perfect originals, like this one, without Stamps. Usually, if the Stamp was missing for some reasons, at its Place, you had a mention like "In Ermangelung eines Dienstsiegels" or "F.d.R." (Für die Richtigkeit). These mentions have to be signed, so you have mostly two signatures from the same Officers, left and right) !!
Generally, Fakes are stamped, Fakers do adore Stamps.... even if they are from bad Quality or don't match to the above mentioned Unit..... That is sometimes the best clu to recognize a Fake Lionel.

[kuratorium]

Here you go a complete fake RF-SS Div. related grouping:

Click!

Please note - the round stamp is the same fake like the stamp on citation which started this thread (last picture)...

[mufasa]

a really interesting and instructive comparisons! thanks
Oriano

[Tom B]

Great info ! Thank you ! Tom

[mufasa]

Also this stamp (post 12 in this thread) has the star away from the wing ... or I see wrong?

[kuratorium]

Also this stamp (post 12 in this thread) has the star away from the wing ... or I see wrong?

You are right, it´s the same fake round stamp.

[mufasa]

You are right, it´s the same fake round stamp.

many thanks Kuratorium!!

Oriano

[Antonio Scapini]

I'm just curious Kuratorium, as this is not the first time you scream "FAKE" without (IMO) no really evidences.
Do you remember you made the same with the "Italian" SS docs and the Wolff signatures?

So my question is: why a faker can't use an original stamp? And why you are so sure this stamp you declared fake is really a fake? How many original stamp have you compared with?
Do you really believe a division used only 1 stamp at the same time?
It is years I don't research anymore on docs but I remember for example the LAH used at the same time at least 3 different stamps.

So, do you have something interesting when you say "fake", or it is just your opinion based only on 1 doc like you did with the Wolff signed docs?

IMO the Simon signed doc you declared fake is a perfectly fine original wartime.

But before to show you why, I'll wait your reply with solid evidences and some more docs for comparison. I don't think a single comparison with a single doc could be enough to scream "FAKE".

[kuratorium]

I'm just curious Kuratorium, as this is not the first time you scream "FAKE" without (IMO) no really evidences.
Do you remember you made the same with the "Italian" SS docs and the Wolff signatures?

So my question is: why a faker can't use an original stamp? And why you are so sure this stamp you declared fake is really a fake? How many original stamp have you compared with?
Do you really believe a division used only 1 stamp at the same time?
It is years I don't research anymore on docs but I remember for example the LAH used at the same time at least 3 different stamps.

So, do you have something interesting when you say "fake", or it is just your opinion based only on 1 doc like you did with the Wolff signed docs?

IMO the Simon signed doc you declared fake is a perfectly fine original wartime.

But before to show you why, I'll wait your reply with solid evidences and some more docs for comparison. I don't think a single comparison with a single doc could be enough to scream "FAKE".

No problem if you are convinced about the originality, but please don´t be angry that I have a different view.
I can say only one -
I will not evaluate the signatures because I'm not an expert in this area, but all round stamps used on these copies (and convoluted) have the same characteristics by which I can it identify (I have studied a graphic design). I will not say which characteristic, this topic I have very often discussed with my collector friends. All such copies come from one forger and over flooding the market in the last few years.
And you are right -
all divisions used multiple types of round stamps, but these are also different from those copies.
And finally - I think there was already showing a big lot of fake document from the same forger (among others also the Wolff), it is not necessary to show more documents for comparison, and I also don't want to help the forger in his work.
Just a pity that many experienced document collectors here are afraid to express his opinion...
I'm sorry but I will not write more - I have more important things to do than to defend my opinions here without end.

[Antonio Scapini]

This is surely not the best answer I would have expected to read.
We are all here to share our knowledge, and don't worry, a lot of fakers probably know more than what you (an me too) think to know.

However, if you don't want answer to my question, I have no problems.

But I'd like to show that there are some more knowledgeable guys that this this doc is a good one, in fact it was discussed some time ago. And it comes in a group.

Have a nice day!

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=531819

[pep]

what about this??? ....

to me, a good one. but, would like to read your comments

[kuratorium]

what about this??? ....

to me, a good one. but, would like to read your comments

The round stamp is a ugly fake, very different from period one...