RK Citation - help on value

[StefanK.]

Dear gentleman,

I am currently negotiating the price of a RK mappe. I have no experience with paperwork, especially with something valuable like a official RK document so I would like to ask you for help. The price should be fair for both the seller and the buyer. Following informations can be given:

• The mappe was given to a Stuka pilot
  The recipient held a low officer rank
  The pilot is not very popular
  The recipient got no more higher grades than the RK
  The award date was mid 1941
  The pergament docment is in good condition ( II )
  The red binder shows some "wear", especially at the edges. Would consider the condtion III to III+

I hope that info helps to give me an idea about the actual market value in € or $. It would be great if you can give a short justification on your price-clue. Every help is very appreciated.

Many thanks in advance!

Stefan

[hucks216]

The last three I saw for sale from dealers (within the last 12 months) were in the 10,500 - 12,000 Euro range. Two were for low(ish) ranking officers and the other was for a General.

[max history]

There are only two people whose opinions matter, or even count, here. The buyer and the seller. The seller has (I assume) decided upon an asking price. As the prospective buyer, you must decide whether or not you want to pay that amount. It is pointless giving amounts of other documents as it's not them that are for sale. I have paid high figures for some pieces that I like which others may not have considered reasonable. Also, there are some items in my collection that I would want high figures for if I decided to part with them, regardless of what similar documents are listed at elsewhere. It all comes down to whether you want the piece badly enough to pay the asking price....period.
Hucks has quoted some dealer figures, but I could give you different figures; some higher, some lower, so it's pointless. That is why I never provide valuations. I (or any other collector) could say that RK documents are worth €7500-€12500, but if the seller wants €15000, then it's a waste of time. The bottom line is ...... what would you rather have, the document or the money the seller is asking? That is all that matters.
Max.

[StefanK.]

Hello max,

Thanks for your help. I am collector long enough to understand the principles of supply and demand and sometimes it is hard to give a clue about the value. But there are market values, even for RK mappen. I told before that my experience is low but the amount that were mentioned are in the range i expected.

Further opinions are welcome!


Stefan

Ps: thanks to max and hucks

[kaiserwilhelm2]

It sounds like the sort of Mappe I would be interested in myself.

Please think carefully on why you are buying a Mappe as it is an expensive item and as a result buyers are not so easily found if you want or need to resell it. Most of us that buy a Mappe usually only buy one so you better make sure that this is the one you want.

In general buy a Mappe of someone/thing you have a connection with. If you are into Panzer do not buy a Luft Mappe.

If you are into mint do not buy a Mappe that is not. Selling expensive mint items is easier than selling slightly cheaper not so minty items.

Make sure you actually want to fork out this much money for a fancy piece of paper that has of course display value but which in my opinion is less than uniforms or medals which are usually a lot cheaper to boot.

If you have taken these points into consideration and still want to get this Mappe then condition is everything. A crappy Mappe will probly still fetch 5000 euro, a mint one not from a dealer or auction house should be available for 12000. A condition 3 Mappe I would be happy to get for 7500 euro but would not pay more than 9000 for.

Cheers, Willem

[juoneen]

Max historys advice is the soundest ive heard lately, and i concur. There is a ball park area where common mappes are maxed at, but we must remember they stopped making these early on, and were to finish awarding them after the german felt they would win the war. I personally believe many are underpriced and some day will dwarf the medals pricing once all of them are boiught up, and absorbed into the dealers market. Its what you can negotiate, and to advise anybody on this subject i have recently felt should be a forum violation. Too many things can go wrong, and the advisor will be the bad guy.

I am out for what is right, and fair for us all, and to price things not divulged as generalitys such as common luft man, and person of no importance , is a way of saying , its none of your business who he is,but tell me what i should do....we cant b expected to any longer spoon feed beginner buyers....the bottom line is , ask the price, negotiate if you want it, and if you cannot, or cannot meet the asking price keep it to yourselves, and move on. I also say books on the subject as to pricing mappes cannot be worthwhile, and are a waste of time ,as to me that is just a way to try and hold down the better part of the RK collecting field, as the mappe is the only thing that can definitively pin down an RK winners achievement ,and is the most valueable RK item even above the medal, and regardless of where items come from, if the mappe isn't found with the item first hand,(and even then it still may be spurriously mated) you never know if the RK medal is even a wartime example with all the ones out there that have been deemed by the so called experts as original , when their numbers dwarf the number awarded by many times . The mappe is the shiznick of all war collectibles next to the, Order of the Blood, TK ring, and the GPB, and the Coburg badge in importance . I would start studying up, and see what you can do, but remember the sellers look here also....don't miss it if you can swing the price, is my advice...even if you feel you have paid too much...sometimes they are a once in a lifetime scoop, and the prices will rise many times what they are selling for now very soon .Remember the beginners always saying i wish i had bought so and so back in the day, but in the day they still seemed high priced , just like marriage, and you must make the plunge if you wanna have one...and Do not fall for book values.....as i said they are falsely held down for good reason, and are actually now to date outdated . Good luck , and if you scoop , let us know, just be sure it is an original before you dive in and get a letter guaranteeing it money back.(best wishes)