Photo of dead SS soldiers, Nuremberg, April 1945

[Remy Spezzano]

I originally posted this thread in the SS Insignia forum but it seems to have stirred some debate as to how the soldiers in the photo met their fate.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=595057

[DaveNZ]

poor guys: they look like just kids

execution style killing imo

the senselessness of war

[randy@treadways]

Impossible to tell for sure, but I lean toward bodies strewn around this building were dragged to a single spot and tossed onto a pile for 'collection'.

[W Petz]

I don't believe all were SS members as I see at least one LW member in a fliegerbluse and a possible second one that has rank insignia but no SS Sleeve Eagle.

I tend to agree that they may have been stacked there for collection by graves registration and a good opportunity for a photo shoot to make it more newsworthy by the photographer .

[o.r.k.]

I heard that the area around Nuremberg saw many massacres of WSS men in 1945, killed by US soldiers after surrrender. Perhaps the picture can be seen in this context- a famous incident was that of the very probable execution of Hstf Kukula and the finding of quite a few mass graves of Germans after the fighting that give room to a figure of about 200 killed German servicemen after surender. As I said I can´t tell that for sure.

[enorepap]

Hallo o.r.k.

This is a link to a thesis with a large bibliography about the matter:

https://digital.library.txstate.edu/...6/fulltext.pdf

[chrischa]

Thanks for the link.

I scanned through ready for a good read at home.

The quote on page 63 is interesting!

[Mike Davis]

Thanks for posting link, very interesting paper.

[o.r.k.]

Hi enorepap,
very impressive study. Thanks a lot for sharing. As so often being on this forum is like getting a valuable history lesson.
Oliver

[PanzerJager1944]

Hallo o.r.k.

This is a link to a thesis with a large bibliography about the matter:

https://digital.library.txstate.edu/...6/fulltext.pdf

This is a fascinating, well sourced read, thanks for posting it.

[karlo]

v interesting picture...imo fallen where shot...bullet marks and what looks like a blood splatter on the wall..as well as position of bodies ..esp right camo youth, who looks like he just dropped onto his knees and face...would indicate that...k

[Kelly w]

This photo has been around for many years.

Isn't the walking stick a dead giveaway to a lined up execution? There is no other reason for it to be there under the arm. A body dump or a last stand would not show it in that position.

Good detective work from observers in original thread.

Thks
Kelly

[randy@treadways]

I'm missing the walking stick. Can somebody point it out to me?
Oh, I see it now. It looks like it has a cross-piece at the top which could mean it's a crutch... but then the main shaft is so skinny it might not bear as much weight as a crutch.

How many guys do you see here? Of course there are at least five. Is the guy wearing the hat the same one wearing the black SS tunic?

[chrischa]

I'm glad this photo being discussed in this thread has more factual discussion. The one on the SS forum is becoming too much about opinion not of the facts.

I actually count seven men. There are five obvious men, but you can see the head in cap doesn't belong to the panzer wrap man.

I also see a foot between the Luftwaffe man's legs on the left that clearly doesn't belong to the bodies. It would make the dead man's leg to 'Luft's' right twice as long as is normal. The direction of the foot cannot be Luft's beant underneath him.

With regards to the crutch, I have seen them in photos with two legs. We only see the rear leg here, the other is underneath the arm.

Please also note the bandaged foot in the middle. Clean bandage as well. Couldn't have walked far.

I still believe the bodies that would show clear wounds have been moved to avoid distress to the viewer.

Cammouflage man I think fell when killed. His socks are too clean for him to have walked far. I don't believe his boots were reomved after death. Firstly american troops didn't need them and secondly they're not the best souviner. Also, the boots would most likely have been laced. His position does not show boots being removed as I believe the leg would have been straightened when pulling the boot off.

Regards,
Chris.

[randy@treadways]

There are five obvious men, but you can see the head in cap doesn't belong to the panzer wrap man.

It could be that the hat was propped on top of the head of the panzer man by some soldier or photographer (humor? some other reason?) with no knowledge that it's a mismatch to the uniform.

I also noted the lack of visible wounds. That's pretty much impossible in a photo like this- execution or not execution- unless the bodies were moved around to hide the bullet entry/exit points.

The wall behind them looks like some kind of thick bunker. Maybe they were caught inside by a grenade before they had time to put their boots on, then the bodies were carried out and tossed on the pile. Speculation of course. That would mean different kind of wounds than bullets.

Following this logic thread to 'what happened inside the bunker'.....

let's go back to the caption:


"preferred death to capture" could mean suicide.

Nosebleed is a known symptom of cyanide capsules if I remember right..