LSSAH document grouping for review

[Oberbootsmann]

Hello everyone and thanks so far for your opinions. If this group really should be faked, IMO it will be a new dimension of high level forging.
According to my research so far all stampings and ranks are in accordance with the respective dates on these award documents.
Also the signatures of Wisch and Meyer IMO match exactly the known original ones.

Please tell everybody from the forum who is known to be a SS document- / signature- / stamping expert to check on this group.

Regards

[markus]

The first time I checked this group I saw it on my Blackberry phone screen and I had some initial doubts and a strange feeling as well.

Now I look at it again enlarged on the laptop screen, but I personally still do like this group.

Some loose comments:

1) Wisch signing mid January 1944 as Brigadeführer when he was only promoted to this rank (as one of Germany's youngest Generals) on Jan. 31, 1944, does not bother me. The doc can be back-dated IMO.

2) Wisch had very little consistency in his signatures IMO. I wrote his biography (coming out with Schiffer Publishing by end April 2012), but I don't have any original wartime signature of his in my own collection.
The Wisch-signatures shown here are original IMO.

3) Is there a chance the Sturmabzeichen doc has been altered with the "25 Einsatztage" added?

4) The TDB-doc looks odd, I think that gave me strange vibes when I first saw it, but then again, there's no norm to these docs, is there? The stamped in unit designation and rank is funky, but it's ligit IMO.
I would love to hear opinions from others on this.

5) The "Panzer-Meyer" docs are totally 100% o.k. - Don't mistake later Meyer signatures with the early-style ones!


What made the others NOT like this group?

Cheers,
Markus

[SJP]

I don't see any problems w/ this grp.

The Wisch signature & stamp from the Jan.44 award match w/ a grp I have.

Markus would know Wisch's if anybody does.

I would love to have this in my collection.
__________________________________________________ _____
Cheers Steve

[Oberbootsmann]

Thanks Steve and Markus. I've tried to bring all Wisch and Meyer signatures together on one picture. Makes comparing easier.

Regards

[Rene Chavez]

Now that I see the images I have some minor concerns all the unit seals are too faded and not as clear as well as the signatures but perhaps it is the scan images. I do like the signatures and the color ink used on the unit seals and these documents seem to be an accordance with the time frame. Matthias you have lots of good and rare documents you probably already made some comparisons with the size, paper, ink, print and tested them to see if they glow with all that in hand I wouldn't be too worry even if it comes from militaria321.

Rene Chavez
www.foreignvolunteerlegion.com

[rickenbacker]

Matthias , I personally cannot see any issues with this grouping, all of the documents appear to be nice originals, The Teddy Wisch signature is identical to an example in my own collection . best regards Andy.

[TrondK]

It looks like a original grouping. I like it personally.

[Oberbootsmann]

Thanks so far, gentlemen. I have to admit - from the low quality pictures shown at first it wasn't easy to make a clear conclusion.
Nevertheless, it would be nice to read more opinions.

Regards

[markus]

Thanks so far, gentlemen. I have to admit - from the low quality pictures shown at first it wasn't easy to make a clear conclusion.
Nevertheless, it would be nice to read more opinions.

Regards

Steve's opiniom would have done for me! ;o)

[skalphunter]

If the specialists say all good then that group is a bummer .I only talked about my impression and my gutfeeling ( I can not help it). Seeing the closeups i really have to admit that stamp and inkwise they look authentic.
Skalp

[Simon O.]

Without being an LSSAH specialist, the group as a whole has a genuine feel about it.

Has anyone seen this particular style of EK doc being used by the division at this period?

The generic type of award doc used for the TDB is seen now and again for all sorts of awards where a specific doc for that award wasn't on hand.

3) Is there a chance the Sturmabzeichen doc has been altered with the "25 Einsatztage" added?

I don't think so, in fact had it been a regular assault badge i'd have serious doubts. This guy was clearly in the thick of things from the begining of the war.

[kuratorium]

Has anyone seen this particular style of EK doc being used by the division at this period?

Here ( click! ) you can see another, 100% original citation from 5.5.1944 with Teddy Wisch sign. Please note the different ink color and also the IMHO different round stamps ( for example letters "f" and "H")...

[Oberbootsmann]

Before referring to Kuratorium, has someone ever seen one of the forms of these particular TDB and GAB "25" documents?

Regards

[Simon O.]

I was refering to the printed style of the EKI doc, which is unusual and not the standard type, like the EKII seen above.

Correct me if i'm wrong here but he should have got the bronze PAB rather than a GAB, though sometimes you see assault badge docs being used for different badge types.

[frankandfrank]

Today i compare the documents and the signatures with originals documents.

As i said it before, the complete grouping is a fake !

The Wisch and Panzermeyer signatures are not good faked! And has nothing to do with the original signatures of Wisch and Panzermeyer!

Iron Cross document signed by Wisch of member "Kuritorium" here you can
see a original document with original signature of Wisch.

Also a few nonsens in the normal papers!