SS Brigadeführer Signed EKII Document...

[Nordmark]

Hi guys,



I stumbled across this award doc today. It looks ok to me, but I would like to ask for advice if you don´t mind.

Could you help me with the signature? Does it look authentic to you? Could someone decipher the name of the Brigadeführer? I honestly have no clue.

The seller asks 190€ for it, which I think it pretty high for an EK doc.



Regards,


Daniel

[AA16]

Hey Daniel,

the signature is from

Jürgen Wagner,

SS-Brigadeführer und Generalmajor der Waffen-SS, Kommandeur 23. SS-Freiwilligen-Panzergrenadier-Division "Nederland"

The signature is handmade in ink, with his typical "g" in Wa"g"ner! I saw it often so onphoto-postcard´s or documents.

Search with the Feldpostnummer: 47428 and you´ll find this:


SS-Feldgendarmerie-Trupp 54 (SS-Brigade Nederland)
(23.4.1944-24.11.1944)

O.K?

Rare signature .... :-)

regards

AA16

[hucks216]

Don't see anything wrong with it - and 190 Euros isn't such a bad price for a Waffen-SS related & signed EK citation. They certainly tend to go for more on dealer sites.

[MarcRikmenspoel]

This is especially interesting for a couple of reasons. Notice that the location is "Gruppe Gefechtstand." This was the headquarters of Kampfgruppe Wagner, which was a force detached from the Tannenberg Line, west of Narva, during August, 1944, to defend the Dorpat/Tartu area to the south. Wagner's command included a variety of units from his own Brigade Nederland, from the Nordland Division, from the Heer, and other elements.

Wagner must have signed a stack of EKII documents on September 1. The II./SS-Artillerie Regiment 11, from Nordland, didn't arrive at KG Wagner until September 11. So this man probably won his EKII in the week or so between the 11th, and when the retreat from Estonia began on the 18th.

Edit: Oops, in looking over the document again, I realized that this man was a Heer Soldat, from Artillerie Regiment 11 in the 11. Infanterie Division, but he still would have been fighting with KG Wagner near Tartu.

[Kuifje69]

Original

Great document!

Best regards,

Rene

[Michael73]

The doc is ok and a price is more then ok

[Nordmark]

Thank you for your generous help guys, really really appreciated as always.


Regards,


Daniel

[Hank C.]

Hi guys,



I stumbled across this award doc today. It looks ok to me, but I would like to ask for advice if you don´t mind.

Could you help me with the signature? Does it look authentic to you? Could someone decipher the name of the Brigadeführer? I honestly have no clue.

The seller asks 190€ for it, which I think it pretty high for an EK doc.



Regards,


Daniel

Not as high as 400....

Hank

[Brian R]

So true, Hank. So true.

[Simon O.]

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=574234

not exactly in the spirit of the forum is it.

[Nordmark]

Hello Simon and others,



I get quite a few pm´s a week asking about prices for putting pieces on the e-stand etc.. I answer them all and give my opinion, because I am glad to help out, so why should I refuse doing this?

One hour after I asked about this doc, I got 5 pm´s with offers for the piece. 2 hours later I had 7 offers total and one member told me I should not sell it for under 350€, if I ever decided to sell it.

So please explain to me what was my mistake again?


Regards,


Daniel

[Hank C.]

Hi Daniel,
It's not a mistake, per se, but just the appearance of - for lack of a better word - greed. You complain about it being 190 euro, but when you find out what it is, all of a sudden 400 seems like a good price.

Now to top it off, 7 offers weren't good enough, and you want to squeeze every bit of blood out of the stone (so to speak).

I can sort of equate it to something I had. I bought a small collection of stuff. INcluded was a skull. I had ZERO idea what it was. Somebody identified it for me as an EARLY SS skull. His price range was 75 to 250 dollars. I asked 125 for it, because with the other stuff I acquired, it's really all I needed. Wasn't something for my collection, I made some sort of profit on it, and (hopefully) somebody who can REALLY appreciate it got it. Now as soon as you hear EARLY SS, you know you can ask a buttload of money for it. But I was happy to make a little, and hopefully expand somebody else's collection with something I didn't really want or need. THe skull sold on e-stand in less than an hour, and about 9 other people PM'ed me about it.

Just keep in mind, if you post prices that you pay, and people see prices you sell for, you're gonna get some flak. It's a free market, and you're not breaking any rules. It's just the overall appearance of the deal.

best,
Hank

[Brian R]

It really is a great document but I don't agree with the person who stated its worth no less than 350 euro. The Nederland connection is nice but its really a Heer recipient with a WSS signature - it wasn't bestowed to an actual WSS member. So, I'd guess a fair price is more like 250-275.

[Simon O.]

Hank has put it very well. As he says, you've broken no rules, but it's not within the spirit of a forum designed as a collector to collector community where members can share, discuss and help each other.

Brian is quite right, although signed by an SS officer, it's still to a Heer soldier. Whether or not the signature and Nederland connection is worth the extra 300 euros or more to someone, i don't know. I guess it depends on how often Nederland related items turn up and those who collect specifically Dutch related items. Certainly, i can think of a few units within my area of interest where an EKII doc would be worth that amount or more to me personally.

[hucks216]

Just to add a comparison. About 5 months ago I bought something very similar, namely an EK II citation to a Heer soldier in a Pionier Btl and signed by SS-Gruppenführer Matthias Kleinheisterkamp while he was briefly in charge of III. (germ.) SS-Panzerkorps in early 1944 and I paid approx 250 Euros for it, and that was a dealers price.