Kriegsmarine Documents

[Brian R]

Why are Minesweeper docs so common but all other KM War Documents seem so rare? Very often I see Minesweeper docs available on various dealer websites - all variations (A4 or A5), single or part of a group. However, I never see docs for any other KM war badges. I can see why E-Boat or Auxillary Crusier badges are uncommon, but what about Destroyer War Badge docs, Coastal Arty War Badge docs, or even High Seas Fleet War Badge docs? I would think that we'd even see more U-Boat docs than we do even though U-boat service items are very much sought after. I know HSF Badges were not awarded too often but I would think there would be a lot more groups belonging to Destroyer or Coastal Arty personnel available. I encourage any info and/or opinions.

Brian

[Gordon Williamson]

The Minesweeper Badge was also awarded to escort and other coastal security vessels. If you add up the numbers of ships which were inexistence whose crews could qualify for the minesweeper badge, it is no surprise that it is pretty common. Ceraibly the biggest single grouping of personnel who could qualify for a particular war badge.

Gordon

[Simon O.]

In reply to the part on coastal artillery award documents. Whilst the KM had large numbers of personnel serving in the coastal artillery only a relatively small proportion actually saw combat.
As for the destoyer badge doc. I seem to see more docs. related to the Norwegian campaign of 1940 crop up than any other, not surprising when you consider the numbers of destroyers involved and the fact that the destroyer arm effectively had its heart ripped out by the loss of 10 ships at Narvik.

I do agree with you however about the scarcity of U-boat badge docs. Its something i've wondered about too.



regards

Simon

[Gordon Williamson]

Bear in mind with the U-Boat docs that the casualty rate was enormous, between 70-80% many of whom never got as far as completing the mandatory two war cruises to qualify for the badge. Lots of boats were lost on their first trip, so the number of guys who served (around 80,000) on U-Boats is massively greater than the number who would have received the U-Boat Badge, so the docs are bound to be rare.

Gordon

[Simon O.]

Good point Gordon, but couldn't the 2 war cruises be waived if the individual was wounded or killed in action?



regards

Simon

[Gordon Williamson]

Simon,

Yes but "could" is the operative word. I have had several U-Boat Wehrpässe over the years for guys who were KIA but with no entry for the badge. Usually, the Wehrpass was completed up to date and sent to the NOK as a momento. I have had Army and Waffen-SS Wehrpässe where there were posthumous dated entries for war badges, but haven't yet had a U-Boat one. I'm sure it did happen on occasion, but I don't think it was necessarily the standard procedure.

Gordon

[David C]

I have a nice Kriegsmarine group.

All awards and all citations with 3 uniform photos of recipient.
1st October medal
Return of the Memel medal
EKII
Minesweepers Badge
High Seas Fleet Badge
Wound Badge in Black

He served onboard the Admiral Hipper in 40-41 then a minesweeper unit in the channel until summer 42 then the Baltic for the remainder of the war.

David.

[François SAEZ]

David,
if you want me to post the pics of your group, just send them to fsaez@noos.fr

[David C]

François

I didn't think anyone would want to see them, I was just mentioning that I have a HSF citation as part of a group.
If anyone would like me to post photo's/scans I'll see if I can get some done and then post them.

David.

[François SAEZ]

Speaking for me, I would appreciate to see your group - good doc are always good for the knowledge.
Thanks
François

[David C]

Give me a couple of days to get the pics together.

Keep an eye on the thread.


David.

[François SAEZ]

Thanks

[George Stimson]

David C

I'm looking forward to seeing the docs too!

George

[David C]

OK fellas here they come.

If you tell me that they're fakes then I'm forgetting all about the Third Reich, extending my house and finishing off my pinball machine collection :-)

I have not researched these at all. All information provided was received with the group.

UPDATE

Having looked back at this thread and noticed that many of the scans have been removed because they were too large,.. ah,.. the good old days,.. I've replaced them.

I'll bring it back to the top.

Cheers,
David.

[David C]

Duplicate.