Poll: Do photos decline in value after publication in books?? - Yr opinion pls

[Jock Auld]

Mr Petz,

Your first paragraph confirms what I'm getting at. You seek to restrict or impede the honest collector by forcing him only to view on line and state in the second paragraph that you know you can't control it so the criminal will benifit anyway.

It is also legal to down load images put on WWW provided we don't post or publish.

Paragraph 3, I can only say congratulations.

But at the end we agree that we all enjoy collecting the historical images at a price to suit our pocket?

I wonder if any of mine have been lifted and used against us?

Who knows.

Jock

[smershagent]

i have some sense of respect for the guy that captures the original image and/or takes the original photograph, but the idea behind someone feeling they own the rights to (and have ultimate control of) an image derived from a print of someone else's photograph (especially one that is decades old) boggles my mind . . .

+1,000

[W Petz]

Jock,

If the honest collector wants to use the photos I posted then ask...that is common courtesy as I do not seek to restrict or impede. That is your interpretation not mine. If I wanted to restrict or impede I wouldn't have posted and shared my photo images. Just because I posted them doesn't give you the legal right unless there is some written rules I missed on WAF.

Whether there is a law or not a criminal will take what he wants and I don't believe we have allot of criminals on WAF but there are a few and they eventually get tripped up and identified.

I wish you the best in collecting

Bill

Mr Petz,

Your first paragraph confirms what I'm getting at. You seek to restrict or impede the honest collector by forcing him only to view on line and state in the second paragraph that you know you can't control it so the criminal will benifit anyway.

It is also legal to down load images put on WWW provided we don't post or publish.

Paragraph 3, I can only say congratulations.

But at the end we agree that we all enjoy collecting the historical images at a price to suit our pocket?

I wonder if any of mine have been lifted and used against us?

Who knows.

Jock

[R MICHAEL]

I am with Bill 100% about his feelings on usage of photos here on WAF and elswhere. I feel that it value or de-value being affected by publication is dependent on a personal perspective. I personally do not have a problem buying photos/albums that have been shared via forums as the value is in the period printed image and not so much as "first time seen".
I have photos that have been used in publications and to me they are still as "valueable" as they were when added to the collection. History and the itmes we collect that represent that history cannot be quantified monetarily as one would gold or oil.

Mike

[Jock Auld]

Bill,

I see what your saying but if every honest collector on here asked your permission I think your inbox would be full all of the time. Can I add for the young collectors being on line may cost a lot for them or their parents and as such viewing only on line may just push the hobby further out of reach?

Downloading is harmless if your intent is likewise.

I just take the view that if I post something up then it will be used by good and bad alike and since I have no control why worry.

I see I drifted off the point but did state in my first post that monitary value for me anyway is unaffected and like most people it is the image that is of interest.

I have no problem collecting Bill and at a fraction of what the dealers ask.

Jock

[Edgar Alcidi]

Bill,

I see what your saying but if every honest collector on here asked your permission I think your inbox would be full all of the time. Can I add for the young collectors being on line may cost a lot for them or their parents and as such viewing only on line may just push the hobby further out of reach?

Downloading is harmless if your intent is likewise.

I just take the view that if I post something up then it will be used by good and bad alike and since I have no control why worry.

I see I drifted off the point but did state in my first post that monitary value for me anyway is unaffected and like most people it is the image that is of interest.

I have no problem collecting Bill and at a fraction of what the dealers ask.

Jock

I think we are going off topic....I don´t think that Markus started the thread for this kind of discussion....anyway feel free to go ahead if u like it...

[W Petz]

I believe we are finish in what we had to say and I will continue to share and I will no longer interfere with this topic.

Just another note....My in-box is alway buzzing with requests and I don't have a problem with sharing high resolution photos without my protection logo. I do however have to draw the line when very often there are requests to purchase photos/documents which are valuable to me as a student of history and collector.

My intent was not to offend but to clarify.

Bill

I think we are going off topic....I don´t think that Markus started the thread for this kind of discussion....anyway feel free to go ahead if u like it...

[Edgar Alcidi]

I believe we are finish in what we had to say and I will continue to share and I will no longer interfere with this topic.

Just another note....My in-box is alway buzzing with requests and I don't have a problem with sharing high resolution photos without my protection logo. I do however have to draw the line when very often there are requests to purchase photos/documents which are valuable to me as a student of history and collector.

My intent was not to offend but to clarify.

Bill

Bill, no one is offended here...for sure not me anyway. I was just pointing out that the thread was going in the wrong direction, that´s it.
I do not have dogs in this fight, but it is obvious in my eyes that using photos without permission (and publish it) is more then not fair (beside maybe for a personal archive)...I don´t care much on stuff that I do not own, that´s why I use also to delete all the photos that I sell. The people that are going to buy photos have for me ALL the rights on in. (just to clarify)

[W Petz]

Edgar,

Thanks for your clarification. I believe I have purchased quite a few photos from you as well. I rarely sell photos but I'm willing to share them and give no thought to whether they increase or decrease in value if published.

All the Best,

Bill

Bill, no one is offended here...for sure not me anyway. I was just pointing out that the thread was going in the wrong direction, that´s it.
I do not have dogs in this fight, but it is obvious in my eyes that using photos without permission (and publish it) is more then not fair (beside maybe for a personal archive)...I don´t care much on stuff that I do not own, that´s why I use also to delete all the photos that I sell. The people that are going to buy photos have for me ALL the rights on in. (just to clarify)

[panzer1432]

Photos

I freely share my photos on the WAF Forum with watermark. I don't agree with the downloading of my photos without my permission. Meaning I share them with forum members on the forum only. Use of them anywhere else especially posting them in other forums or publishing them in books without my consent breaks the rules of common courtesy in my book and is a form of stealing those images outside of WAF.

I do understand there is no way to control this but I and several other members did experience an incident in which a member was selling our images on Ebay. We collectively stopped him from this practice. So there is no guarantee that someone will not use them beyond their own hard drive but I feel an agreement is in order for usage.

I do have quite allot of my photos published in books but that is only with my permission...either verbal or written. A great majority of them were previously unpublished.

Value depends on the situation....if you are a collector it becomes a personal choice on how much you want to spend for a particular photo or grouping of photos. To me it is the uniqueness and historical value and not the resale or thought of investment that others have in mind.

Bill

Bill,

I agree with you completely. Many of your photos speak volumes about the contestants in WW 2.

THANK YOU and others for making a huge contribution to this forum !

Mike W

[Mark C. Yerger]

With a dozen plus books I've written as much as anyone else on the forum. My comments:

1) Collectors want originals, not prints. For my use only a scan is needed.

2) The original is what has intrinsic value.

3) copies made from a book, continuous or half tone, suck in quality compared to the original.

4) I crop dead areas if asked so the full original not shown

5) Many collectors are clueless who is in photos until I see them, an ID adds to value of the original, as does information about him. Same with documents, though I'm amazed at fakes bought with bad signatures or wrong information (read a book before you buy). Also good ones collector's have no clue who signed them (or anything about them) until I see them.

6) Finally, EVERY collector who has contributed to me has used the book it's in as a selling point, same with images of documents I use. Same as daggers, helmets, etc.

[N.C. Wyeth]

5) Many collectors are clueless who is in photos until I see them, an ID adds to value of the original, as does information about him. Also good ones collector's have no clue who signed them (or anything about them) until I see them.

6) Finally, EVERY collector who has contributed to me has used the book it's in as a selling point, same with images of documents I use. Same as daggers, helmets, etc.

Mark - you write nice books . . . but I have to say, these comments make me think of EGOMANIA . . .

[torstenbel]

I do not have dogs in this fight, but it is obvious in my eyes that using photos without permission (and publish it) is more then not fair (beside maybe for a personal archive)...I don´t care much on stuff that I do not own, that´s why I use also to delete all the photos that I sell. The people that are going to buy photos have for me ALL the rights on in. (just to clarify)

Hi Edgar, I fully agree. Once I have sold photos then they are no longer mine and the new owner may do whatever they wish with the photos they bought from me. I know that some have ended up in books, others are being resold and so on ... some authors have asked me to immediately remove all images of the photos they bought from my website as they do not want for the photos to be seen anywhere else but in their books and that is also fine by me.

With regard to the question on whether publication makes photos more valuable or not, I think there is some give-and-take there ... for some people it will make them more valuable for others they will loose all or some of their value, but overall I think these impacts even out and no harm is done in one way or another....so, as far as the poll question goes I think there is a third option missing: 'No Impact on Value at all', which is why I have not posted a vote.

Just my thoughts on this .... Cheers, Torsten.

[Andy F-P]

Hello,
I was looking through a recent Osprey publication and spotted a photo that I posted on the Forum last year. This was a previously unpublished photo of Walter Matoni taken in November 1944. Was this lifted from the Forum or is there another copy somewhere? I do know that I did not put a watermark on the photo and the quality of the publication in the Osprey book is rubbish.

If it was taken from the Forum, all they had to do was ask and I would have sent them a better electronic copy and as I have no problem with it being published. However, it it was 'lifted' from the Forum I am annoyed by the lack of manners involved or maybe I am just old fashioned.
Regards,
Andy

[Lasse L]

For me, it depends. If I find a rare and nice photo in a archive, which I make a copy of to have published with my research, well then I might want to hold it for myself simply to be the first to have that awesome picture published. Of course I cant stop others from using the very same image if they would stumble upon it while doing their research.

Then on the other hand, if I have a general SS photo in my collection, which I have bought simply because I find it to be a neat picture, then if someone would like to publish it, why not? I still have the picture, and if a researcher would have any interest in using it I cannot see why not.

So for me it is a difference between pictures I have collected during my research, and pictures I have bought simply to collect them. The first category I might be hesitatiant about having published, the second category is no problem.