Rudel wartime signed

[killerkatanas]

Thanks for asking FZ1...

Same for this nice Trudgian framed montage (see photo below) now being offloaded on ehangar with a dud Rudel (close up of the Rudel in post #22) and Wittmann clipping (Letter of Authenticity for each from which dealer?):

http://www.ehangar.com/modules.php?n...ighlight=rudel

Oh, and see the art dealer's response about "war time" sigs - these guys have no idea...

Hope that helps, and keep the good questions coming... The ehangar boys might wake up to reality eventually...

Hi Jeremy,

I take offense at your suggestion that my Rudel is fake and that I do not know what I am talking about. Yes, that display piece, which also has Whittman, is mine.

I got the signature from Stefan Korlin, and there is nothing suspicious about it at all. It is a wartime "Hitler Youth" signature, and Stefan personaly bought the item from the kid (now an older man) that got the signature. I framed the display, it was not done beforehand.

And many of us aviation art collectors have signatures with our displays. It is part of the added Authenticity that we crave. To suggest that we do not know what we are talking about is wrong.

I will make sure to let Stefan know that you are making a point to say that what he sells is fake, that way he can contact you, or his lawyer, and give you the facts.

Brian

[Jeremy]

Delusion

Hi Brian,

Thanks for your message. Actually, I said some art dealers don't have any idea. No need to take offense about your montage. If you think there is nothing suspicious about it, then I am sure you will have no trouble selling it... you might like to let any proposed buyer have a look at this thread and the one on Wittmann so they are fully informed before you sell your montage to them. That would be the right and honest thing to do, wouldn't it?

Looks like you just believed Korlin's story that your Rudel was from a HJ guy. Did you not take the trouble to explore what is an authentic Rudel or Wittmann signature and what is not beforehand? Just like many collectors who take Korlin's word at face value, and cling to the hope that he would never sell anything dodgy cos he's a 'good guy'. You might like to rely on more than the dealer's opinion. It's obviously in his interest to spin a line to sell his stock.

If you have read this thread and still believe your Rudel is genuine, then so be it. Having spent a fair amount of money on it, you naturally want to believe it is authentic. It's your money, but any informed sig collector who follows this thread, or Hartmann, or Schnaufer or Marseille threads recognizes dodgy stuff.

You might also like to read the Hartmann and Schnaufer threads and let me know if you still think everything Korlin sells is authentic, beyond 'just because he says so' .

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=536854
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=hartmann

And we have evidence that Korlin sold at least one Marseille fake combat report. See this CoA in that thread.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=510951

Plus he clearly lied about his source and lied about his 'expert', who supposedly authenticated and laboratory tested the stuff he supplied Frost. Erh, yes, but you can still believe his standard storyline about getting all his stuff from HJ if you want.

You don't need to make a point to Korlin about selling fakes. Of course he knows what is on these threads, and has his cronies post stuff on his behalf. As I have said before, the threat of his lawyers is a childish and purile attempt to stop people highlighting such things as the selling of fake Marseille combat reports, for example.

As I have said before, all of the threads are based on informed comparison and discussion, not the Korlin approach of 'I am an expert of 22 years blah blah blah'. Once you have checked all the threads about fakes more carefully, it is up to you, of course, if you still hang on to the belief that your Rudel and Wittmann are not dodgy clippings. Not my problem.

[Eric JB]

Hi Brian Bradford,

I can clearly understand your reply here on WAF.

To defend your $5750.00 sale, or being left with only one original print from Trudgian called "Battle of Kursk", and loosing so much money on it.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[VtwinVince]

Hey Brian, why don't you save your legal threats for kindergarten? That is where they belong.

[killerkatanas]

I am not selling that piece anymore, and havn't been for over a year now. It was during the time that I lost my job and needed to pay bills. I put over $6,000 into the project, yes as a FUTURE investment, but needed to sell it. I went down to $4,000 and still did not sell it.

But great that I did not need to. I was able to squeeze by with other Ebay sales. I now have my job back and I'm doing fine. I would have regreted selling the piece.

VtwinVince,

Dude I wasn't threatening to use a lawyer. I was commenting on Stefan, who is currently using one to settle this dispute.

I don't think you guys understand that this is not the case of one simple forgery, you are making the case that Stefan has done many. The aviation art community, in particular, has tens-of-thousands invested in Prints by Trudgian and the Taylors which have signatures provided by Stefan.

I ask myself, if he was selling fakes then why did he not try to take me for a ride? When I was looking for signatures of Steiner, Mohnke, Kurt Meyer, and Peiper he had them, but when I asked for Lammerding, Hausser, Hans Weiss, and Westernhagen he did not. If he forged one signature he could have easily forged another. Yet I was not offered these because he didn't have them. A crooked person would not have stopped, he would have taken me all the way to the cleaners.

Accusations that are being made here are hurting the sales of these art pieces. Maybe that is why my Wittmann and Rudel project did not sell, because someone claimed it was fake, when I have the COA to back it.

Brian

[Eric JB]

when I have the COA to back it.

Brian

Brian,

Can you tell us who made that COA or COAs ?

Can be a problem when a faker makes his own COA(s).

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[killerkatanas]

I found my COA's for the Wittmann/Rudel piece. I was thinking that my Rudel came from Stefan, but I was wrong, it came from Bernd of Hero Autographs via his friend Cy at House of Gutenberg.

Here are the COA's

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...anas/001-1.jpg

http://i495.photobucket.com/albums/r...atanas/002.jpg

Brian

[Jeremy]

Naive

Brian,

Korlin might need a lawyer when he is taken to court for selling fake Marseille combat reports. He tells you he is speaking to his lawyer, but probably about how to save his arse and not lose his weapons dealer license if he is found guilty of selling fake documents - one of which we already have proof of, among other things. He has more to lose by going to court than whinging in the background.

Thanks for posting your CoAs. It is naive at best for anyone to rely on the CoA of any dealer (nice CoA Korlin provided with that fake Marseille he sold, for example). I suggest you ask about getting your money back for the two duds you bought and see who is willing to give you a refund. When you do, let us know who refused you a refund - you won't get your money back from Korlin, I bet, even if he is your mate. I expect the Rudel you have was originally bought from Korlin by the dealer, anyway.

You made the mistake of buying on the dealer's word - I have also made that mistake, but I recognize it is a clearly flawed approach. Korlin sold a fake Marseille and that style of signature is one he claimed earlier in the related thread was authentic. One combat report fake is not enough to hang someone, but when they post stuff with the same sig and claim it is authentic, then it is clear he has dug himself a hole.

Similarly, it is naive to believe that a forger can produce signatures at will, and Korlin could have clicked his fingers and produced those names you mention. First he needs to find one to copy, and then it takes a while to produce a reasonable fake. Take a look at the Sandig comparison on this thread - post #40. The forgers best effort is poor.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=sigs

Also, there is much more money to be made from Hartmann, Marseille, Schnaufer, Rudel, Wittman, Peiper, Nowotny etc. than the names you mention. Hence, you can see for the first four mentioned that there are clear dodgy style sigs. That is not to say that all the sigs Korlin sells are likely fake, fair enough, but the big and expensive names being seen in increasing numbers coming from him as the source are highly dubious. Pure greed.

All Korlin's groupies do is whinge about the discussion, add zero to it, say it is only opinion, say 'oh I believe Stefan cos he's a nice guy', or that we should stop highlighting fakes because someone can no longer sell this or that, be it art dealers or private collectors like you, and it is hurting the business. Well, tough sh%t. This forum allows collectors to look at what is being sold, and provide informed comparison of duds v good sigs, so we do. When you get a refund (I hope), you can thank us right here on this thread for helping you get your cash back...

There are clearly particular styles of signatures that are dodgy - Marseille, Prein, Hartmann, Schaufer, Rudel, Peiper, Wittmann - all from one source, and instead of putting our heads in the sand we should be addressing the issue. Read the threads and wake up

I'll help you to see what is suspicious about your Rudel in another post. Wittmann is in another thread that you can look at.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...highlight=sigs

If you can't sell your montage, that's too bad. Pull the crap sigs out, get refunds, and replace them with good ones (if you can find them). It might be worth something then, but IMO never $4-6000. That's the most likely reason you didn't sell it back then, not the dud sigs.

[Jeremy]

Duds

Ok Brian, to help you overcome your lack of suspicion about your Rudel sig whoever you bought it from, have a look at these.

Here are the very dodgy sig style from the fake factory source. Single last name on clippings or photos. Remember, there are at least 14 more of this type with a print edition.

[Jeremy]

Good ones

And here are the few good style ones I can get a hold of. You don't need to be a genius to notice the differences between these and the fake factory style in the previous post. Hope that helps you...

[pfeil335]

Brian Bradford,

It is disingenuous of you to try and muck spread blame to other dealers....I bet I know exactly where the source trail of your Rudel leads.

The WHOLE signature collecting community (including you, me and other dealers) have been fooled by this conveyor belt of supposed rare pieces. (The vast majority conveniently signed at the bottom with room for a drawing from Trudgian or Taylor. )
Someone obviously thinks we are all are a soft touch to be exploited.

A lot of people have this stuff in their collections. We have all had our fingers burnt

Good luck in getting your money back mate...

pfeil

[pfeil335]

Jeremy,

Thanks very much for posting the good vs bad Rudel montages. Nice one!

Many thanks

pfeil

[Jeremy]

Brian

Having tried to assist Korlin's mate Brian with recognising dud versus authentic Rudel signatures, I find he posted a whining comment on ehangar instead of being gracious enough to participate in the discussion on this thread.

http://www.ehangar.com/modules.php?n...ewtopic&t=4560

I was pleased to see rational responses to Brian's whining from others on ehangar - many wise comments by those guys, for sure. For some reason, Brian maintains the stance that Frost and Korlin should not be questioned about the stuff they are selling:

"Stefan and Colin's reputation needs to be free of this negativity"

It seems that whenever any of Korlin's boys post they follow the same line of whining that we should stop exploring this issue here etc and fail to add little to the discussion in an intelligent way to justify why we should not address the problematic sigs out there.

This is not a forum war, and shouldn't be turned into one. I used examples to indicate the style of dud Rudels. There was no 'blasting' of anyone (a very poor choice of verb) or stating that collectors on ehangar "are basically idiots". I refute the suggestion that those posting about the dud sigs here think this about those on ehangar, though you are not helping yourself in that regard, Brian, and your comments like this are unncessary:

"So I urge you to go over there and give him a piece of your mind."

Something is not right in the some of sigs that are coming from FineArts Autographs and Legends Aviation Gallery. No question about that. The quantity and evident style of the BS sigs coming from these two sources is notably different to authentic ones. I have shown sufficient instances for Hartmann, Schnaufer, Rudel, and Marseille, including a proven fake Marseille combat report, which should be cause for concern for all collectors, either here or on ehangar, who spend their money.

My clear motive, supported by other collectors interested in this issue who are providing me with some extra material and input, is evident. Korlin ended up being the focus of threads now cos all the BS stuff seems to lead back to him as the source. The Marseille thread is damning evidence. I could have done this exploration on ehangar, but this is a more suitable and broader forum. It's not just for print collectors, but welcomes their informative input.

By all means defend your buddy Korlin, Brian, but at least try to come up with an intelligent and informative response in that regard on ehangar or here rather than the simplistic, 'yobbo' approach Stefan, you and other Korlin groupies typically seem to adopt. It doesn't help Korlin's case, anyway. You might try reading the threads more carefully before you blithely dismiss the issues they raise. Feel free to burn your money on BS from him, but other collectors are not so blind to reality.

[Eric JB]

killerkatanas / Brian Bradford, just another one that no longer needs any answers, help, evidence or what else from WAF, another one that don't care about thrown away money.

Those Knight Cross winners sure were their time ahead, they were looking into the signature collector future, placing their signature but leaving enough space on a further on empty piece of paper, so that an artist could make a fine piece of work with it.

killerkatanas / Brian Bradford, keep on dreaming and sleep well, you are only believing the faker and dealer stories.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[VtwinVince]

Jesus, with nimrod collectors like this around, no wonder schyster dealers stay in business.