Who made the mistake?

[bsmith56]

I recently picked up this death card named to a Georg Kroiss. I looked him up on the Volksbund and if you notice they have him as being KIA on 11.7.1944, while on his death card it's 11.7.1940.

It also says he was 25 on the card, but if you look at his date of birth according to the Volksbund he would have turned 26 four months before his death according to the card. Also his place of death is listed as Arromanche and in 1944 fighting would have ended there a month beforehand... So I really doubt he died in 44.

So does the Volksbund have him dying 4 years later then he really did? I really don't think the family would have botched the death cards up... But they did mess up his age?

I know the Volksbund is not perfect, so maybe in the construction of graveyards after the war his death date was changed by accident.

Opinions welcome!

[Brian R]

Is it really the same Georg Kroiss?

[jmark]

I'd definitely believe the family. His DOB could be a mistake on Volksbund too. The Volksbund is riddled with errors. If anyone lives near La Cambe maybe they could view the gravestone and see what the DOB is.

Why don't you use the link shown on the Volksbund page (under "Nachricht bei Sachstansänderungen")? Provide a link to the Sterbebild on this page and ask for confirmation of the correct date. They are very helpful and will certainly reply, although the response may take a month or so.

Jason

[Brian R]

Wouldn't he be more apt to be buried at Le Cambe if he had been fighting in Normandy (as the date in the volksbund suggests)? The death notice refers to him as being killed during the French campaign in 1940. I'm not sure this is the same guy.

[bsmith56]

I'll send them a message and see what they say. I see where you can contact them, but where does it say 'Nachricht bei Sachstansänderungen'?

I think this is the same guy... Same name, same rank, same general area of death, the only thing really wrong is the year of death. I thought that he might have been buried in that region in 1940, and then re-buried after the war and been mistaken for a more recent death?

[jmark]

The modern Volksbund cemeteries do not necessarily coincide with WW2 cemeteries. Remains from smaller graveyards have been disinterred and moved to larger "Sammelfriedhof". I know this is the case in Russia, not sure about La Cambe. In what cemeteries are other German 1940 casualties buried?

Jason

[jmark]

I'll send them a message and see what they say. I see where you can contact them, but where does it say 'Nachricht bei Sachstansänderungen'?

It's shown in the vidcap you posted.

[Brian R]

The modern Volksbund cemeteries do not necessarily coincide with WW2 cemeteries. Remains from smaller graveyards have been disinterred and moved to larger "Sammelfriedhof". I know this is the case in Russia, not sure about La Cambe. In what cemeteries are other German 1940 casualties buried?

Jason

I don't know much specific information about cemeteries and don't know where the casualties from the 1940 campaign would be buried. I'm just under the impression that the burying of German soldiers would have been more organized and controlled during and after the French campaign. Le Cambe seems like it was more of a central cemetery following the less organized and more hectic system of taking care or the dead during the Normandy campaign. I can certainly see that this would not be the rule, however.

[Simon O.]

German war cemeteries are based on area, not campaign or date. It's not based on how organised any previous cemeteries were, simply the concentrating them in to a few large cemeteries rather than hundreds of small ones.

The really irritating thing is trying to unpick where they were originally buried, I once asked the Volksbund if they held such records, from when they were moved and was effectively told, we might have such records but we're not going to look for them for you.

Given that most of those buried at LaCambe died in '44 the mistake is understandable. I also wonder if he didn't die either from an accident, or perhaps from wounds received weeks before. Another possibility is from an air attack.

[jmark]

German war cemeteries are based on area, not campaign or date. It's not based on how organised any previous cemeteries were, simply the concentrating them in to a few large cemeteries rather than hundreds of small ones.

That's what I was trying to say. Thanks for stating it much more clearly.

[Brian R]

Guys, thanks for clearing this up.

[bsmith56]

Thanks for the help guys! I am submitting a message to the Volksbund right now. I'll keep you updated when they respond....

[bsmith56]

Here is the update I promised. I heard back from the Volksbund the other day and it looks like my hunch was correct in that his date of death was changed at some point accidentally.

Also interestingly enough it looks like they do indeed have his history of where he was buried and it appears he was moved a few times. First he was buried in Arromanches, moved to Caen, and finally moved to La Cambe most likely after the war sometime. Here is a snippet of what they sent me:


Dear Mr Smith,
thank you very much indeed for your hint. The correct date of death is the
one you named. We have downloaded the remembrance card for our file and
can present you the corrected data.
Name: Georg Kroiss
Dienstgrad: Unteroffizier
geboren: 10.03.1914, Lochheim
Erkennungsmarke: -136-5.Inf.Rgt.179
Todestag: 11.07.1940
Todesort: St.Gabriel
Erstbestattungsort: Arromanches-les-Bains
Zweitbestattungsort: Caen Efdh. E.561
umgebettet nach: La Cambe / Frankreich
Block: 36
Grab: 94

As you can see they included his dogtag number, so I now know what unit he was in seeing as Inf.Rgt.179 was a part of the 57. Infanterie-Division which was in Normandy during the summer of 1940.

The Volksbunds site has not been updated yet... Not sure if they will change that or the year on his grave. Either way it's cool to hear back from them and I know this mistake is a very small error in the scope of things, but it's cool I was able to help correct it. And thanks again for all your input.

[jmark]

As you can see they included his dogtag number, so I now know what unit he was in seeing as Inf.Rgt.179 was a part of the 57. Infanterie-Division which was in Normandy during the summer of 1940.

Good work! It's always a nice feeling to resolve small mysteries like this. And it was good that they provided you with the different burial sites.

His dog-tag number may not be the unit he was in when killed. It probably is but it cannot be 100% certain as he may have been transferred to another unit. A bit of research where Inf.Rgt.179 was located when Kroiss was killed should give an answer.

All the best,
Jason

[bsmith56]

Good work! It's always a nice feeling to resolve small mysteries like this. And it was good that they provided you with the different burial sites.

His dog-tag number may not be the unit he was in when killed. It probably is but it cannot be 100% certain as he may have been transferred to another unit. A bit of research where Inf.Rgt.179 was located when Kroiss was killed should give an answer.

All the best,
Jason

You are very right, he may have been transferred to another unit by then seeing as his dogtag would only show his 'initial' unit. But the 179th was in Normandy, so there is a good chance he was still in that unit, or at least the same division. I'll see if I can find any info on that unit. Either way I am not too concerned!