Hans Joachim Marseille Signed Photo

[Craig Gottlieb]

Thank you, Jeremy. I do acknowledge that signatures are one of the most difficult areas of historical collecting. I also feel that if it was not so difficult, signatures would trade for MUCH more money than they do. In other words, the danger is priced into the market. We must always be careful and diligent to monitor the market for the sudden influx of signatures, such as the case was, a few years ago with signatures like Rommel - a sure sign that something nefarious is indeed afoot.

[Jeremy]

Dealer

Maybe I should name the dealer in question, who provided a CofA to me stating it as a genuine sig? I am happy to say where I bought it and share other examples of items I bought from him for analysis by you guys.

Firstly, I will post some other signatures for discussion. Hope you will continue to comment Max.

As Dark Angel has said, it would be good if more German collectors joined in the discussion. Where are you FrankandFrank???

J

[max history]

Maybe I should name the dealer in question, who provided a CofA to me stating it as a genuine sig? I am happy to say where I bought it and share other examples of items I bought from him for analysis by you guys.

Firstly, I will post some other signatures for discussion. Hope you will continue to comment Max.

As Dark Angel has said, it would be good if more German collectors joined in the discussion. Where are you FrankandFrank???

J

Actually, Ralf (frankandfrank) was one of the people who PM'd me and agreed that the examples you posted require further discussion. He was unable to post a full comment on them as he was busy with work commitments, but he did say he would contribute later this week. I'll leave it to him to comment further.
Max.

[WalterB]

I don't collect autographs, and I don't have much of an investment in the document that I posted, so no real harm done on my account. The source had been a pretty solid source previously for authentic KCs, oakleaves, and swords awards. The KC, oakleaves and the swords all checked out as 100% authentic, so that was most important for me. The autographed document was thrown in as "an extra" given the significant costs of the awards themselves. Knowledgeable autograph collectors should feel free to post their thoughts. Like I said, I don't collect autographs and helmets are my focus, so please feel free to go at it.

[Shaun Winkler]

Hi Walter

Your Marseille combat report is good,

I have a few of the Marseille Combat reports in my collection and all show the exact same characteristics as yours.

Regards
Shaun

[max history]

Hi Walter

Your Marseille combat report is good,

I have a few of the Marseille Combat reports in my collection and all show the exact same characteristics as yours.
Regards
Shaun

Shaun,
It might be an idea to show your examples.
Regards,
Max.

[max history]

Out of interest, here's a real combat report of a bombing raid over England in 1940 by Ju87s. It is signed by later Knights Cross recipient Oberleutnant Helmut Naumann. Although this is obviously not a fighter report, the others I have seen in official archives resemble this format.
Max.

[Jeremy]

Examples

Yes, Shaun, please post your examples as Max asks. Thanks.

Max, I was reading that Marseille was in Germany from 18 June to 23 August and that he went to a HJ group in Berlin and signed a load of Hoffman photos in that time(Kurowski book). The Weitze item I posted is dated in that period also and he did visit the Messerschmitt factory. More like circumstantial support I guess... is it possible he modified his sig?? When is the Hamilton sig dated?

J

[max history]

Unfortunately, I only have the image posted and therefore cannot provide any date.
People do alter their signatures, but the general character structure remains. Heydrich is a prime example. As his volume of paperwork increased, his signature developed through stages from a clearly legible word to a more dashed ending. However, the general character formation remained unaltered.
Max.

[Jeremy]

Thanks Max.

So all the Marseille's out there which look like my Marseille, I now don't like also. The Legends website has a load of clippings and the Marseille's are very similar to the one I showed that I bought from Stefan Korlin - sorry, I think he should be named: he has guaranteed with his CofA given to me that the item he sold me was genuine. I saw many of the Legends one's on his website originally.


J

[Hundestaffel]

More Fuel for the Marseille Fire...

http://www.militaria321.com/auktions...tionID=5896881


"Hundestaffel"

[max history]

Jeremy,
As a point of note, you can see the transition from thin to thick ink strokes you mentioned earlier in the top Heydrich example above. This is where the direction of the nib alters. Thin lines usually indicate a sidewards stroke of the nib, whereas the thicker lines usually indicate a downward or upward stroke resulting in the release of more ink deposited on the surface. Also, a sidewards stroke results in less pressure upon the point of contact.
Max.

[Jeremy]

Yes, I see your point Max. It seems natural in the examples you give - I just feel it looks odd in the Marseille, when compared to the Hamilton sig. I guess its personal opinion really, and I don't like Craig's sig, yet the Hamilton looks fine (maybe because I know it is already).

[Jeremy]

Thanks Hundestaffel for posting that link. Maybe we might see a sudden flood of sales of these cards after this thread! Let's see what it sells for. 13 bids already from 4 different people.

[max history]

Yes, I see your point Max. It seems natural in the examples you give - I just feel it looks odd in the Marseille, when compared to the Hamilton sig. I guess its personal opinion really, and I don't like Craig's sig, yet the Hamilton looks fine (maybe because I know it is already).

Absolutely correct. This game is a matter of opinion only unless one is present when an item is signed. People's differing opinions make the world go round and nobody is infallible.
Max.