Document Group Opinions

[Craig H]

reverse

[hucks216]

The military related citations in Posts # 4, 5, 7, 8 & 14 are all good as is the citation in Post # 11. The KvK citation in Post #14 is signed by Eduard Wagner who played a part in the July 20th Bomb Plot as he lent Stauffenberg his personal plane to fly to Rastenburg on that fateful day. He committed suicide 3 days later. With the SS related PAB 25 citation (Post # 6) a close up of the (faded?) signature and official stamp would be appreciated as I am having problems making them out.

With regards to the citations in Posts # 4 & 5 to a member of 20 Pz.Gren.Div there is some brief details for him at this link which covers the history of the division... http://www.20pzgrendiv.eu/Regimenter/20Div/20.Div.htm - just scroll down the alphabetical list. Vol 1 of the divisions history has also just been released in the English language.

I will leave the Himmler & Goering related documents to others who have more experience with those signatures.

[Craig H]

As requested ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,close up of the 25 panzer doc and signature.

[Craig H]

2 more

[Craig H]

last one

[Craig H]

Anyone know what the doc under the Kuban Shield is for ? "medaille fur deutsche Volfspflege " ?

[hucks216]

Anyone know what the doc under the Kuban Shield is for ? "medaille fur deutsche Volfspflege " ?

it is actually Volkspflege and is the social welfare medal as seen here... http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrenze...he_Volkspflege

I'm not sure about the PAB Silber 25 citation. I was under the impression that the numbered awards were introduced in June 1943 but the citation is dated for 1942 and how would someone involved in artillery get a PAB Silver rather then a Bronze (what would happen if an ex-panzer driver was transferred over to self-propelled artillery)? Maybe someone else can help with that one as the stamp looks pretty decent but I have nothing to compare it to.

[Jon. H]

The Himmler signature is unlike everyone i've seen.

But it's a good one IMO, he hold the pen different so the lines are thicker.

The Göring signature would not be from later Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

Hope that helps !

[Craig H]

The Goring signature is VERY early . 1930 date on the doc ,,,,,,,,,,

[hawkeye 1]

same guy

Hi Craig,
this one was signed by Knights-cross-recipient
Mauritz von Wiktorin.
He was Generalleutnant and Commander of the 20.Pz.Gren.Div.

cheers

Falk

[Simon O.]

I don't like the numbered PAB at all. Date, unit, stamp and award type are all wrong.

[max history]

The Himmler signature is unlike everyone i've seen.

But it's a good one IMO, he hold the pen different so the lines are thicker.

The Göring signature would not be from later Reichsmarschall Hermann Göring

Hope that helps !

The Göring signature is not that of the later Reichsmarschall.
The Himmler signature appears authentic on initial examination, but definitely requires further examination. The strokes are not thicker as a result of how the pen is held, but as a result of the writer using a different (wider) pen nib than that usually consistent with Himmler's preferred choice.
I am not entirely satisfied with some of the other documents and therefore would wish to physically examine this group before reaching a decision. I entirely agree with Simon's views and would wish to give the Bodewin Keitel document a thorough examination.
Max.

[Panzer Rob]

it is actually Volkspflege and is the social welfare medal as seen here... http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ehrenze...he_Volkspflege

I'm not sure about the PAB Silber 25 citation. I was under the impression that the numbered awards were introduced in June 1943 but the citation is dated for 1942 and how would someone involved in artillery get a PAB Silver rather then a Bronze (what would happen if an ex-panzer driver was transferred over to self-propelled artillery)? Maybe someone else can help with that one as the stamp looks pretty decent but I have nothing to compare it to.

Artillery personnel, including those serving in Panzer-Artillery units 'should' have received the GAB, not PAB (in silver or bronze). Not saying there weren't exceptions, but according to regulations he would have been awarded a (in this case higher grade) General Assault Badge if he were serving in an Artillery unit.

Regardless, IMHO the PAB.II doc is a fake.

Rob

[Eric JB]

I don't like the numbered PAB at all. Date, unit, stamp and award type are all wrong.

I totally agree with Simon on that document.

What can be wrong = wrong with that one.

yours friendly

Eric-Jan

[Jon. H]

The Göring signature is not that of the later Reichsmarschall.
The Himmler signature appears authentic on initial examination, but definitely requires further examination. The strokes are not thicker as a result of how the pen is held, but as a result of the writer using a different (wider) pen nib than that usually consistent with Himmler's preferred choice.
I am not entirely satisfied with some of the other documents and therefore would wish to physically examine this group before reaching a decision. I entirely agree with Simon's views and would wish to give the Bodewin Keitel document a thorough examination.
Max.

I would of course to need it in hand to be sure.

Yes, the signature of Göring was not signed by this Göring.
hermann_goring_1_550.jpg