Recovery of stolen property

[Don D.]

Here is a message from the San Antonio District Attorny asking for assistance in recovery of stolen documents:

"the assistant D. A. on the Mansal case is asking for anyone who purchased items from him to please contact him for assistance in prosecution and return of items. Can you put a thread on the paper forum letting them know whats going on, other than the Himmler documents I dont know if its well known over there. "

Here is the thread in the Community Forum: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=501434

Jesse De Los Santos

Investigator

White Collar Crime and Corruption Division

Bexar County Criminal District Attorney's Office

300 Dolorosa, 5th Floor

San Antonio, Texas 78205

Office: 210-335-2404

Direct: 210-335-2568

Fax: 210-335-2773

Email jdelossantos@bexar.org


WAF is cooperating fully with this investigation. Please do the right thing. Make collectors look like decent, responsible people for once.<!-- / message -->

[jmark]

I'm sure this is already known as a screen shot appears in the news stories but I will post it here anyway. It's a thread on Feldgrau where documents from the Nuremberg trials were offered for sale on 20 July 2009. As can be seen, some of them are marked "SOLD". (http://www.feldgrau.net/forum/viewto...31049&p=219595)

Original Nuremberg Trial Documents
by Mansal D » Mon Jul 20, 2009 11:36 am

1. “Plaidoyer im prozess gegen Hermann Goering und andere fuer die Geheime staatspolizei von Dr. Rudolf Merkel”
Date: August, 1946
Place: Nuernberg
Language: German
Background: Hermann Goering and others in the Police (Gestapo) were being tried in Nuremberg with the counsel of lawyer Dr. Rudolf Merkel
Pages: 12
Price: SOLD

2. “The Individual Responsibility of the Defendant Hermann Göring For Crimes Against the Peace, War Crimes, and Crimes Against Humanity”
Date: Unknown
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: The documents for Robert H. Jackson (U.S Chief of Counsel) for charges against Hermann Göring (half of full document set). Evidence provided for his guilt. Prosecutor’s notes
Pages: 24
Price: SOLD

3. “The Individual Responsibility of the Defendant Hermann Göring For Crimes Against the Peace, War Crimes, and Crimes Against Humanity”
Date: Unknown
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: The documents for Robert H. Jackson (U.S Chief of Counsel) for charges against Hermann Göring (full document set). Evidence provided for his guilt. Prosecutor’s notes
Pages: 58
Price: $400 – ON HOLD

4. *NEW* “Office of U.S Chief of Counsel For the Prosecutions of the Axis Criminality: Interrogation of: Hermann Goering (summary)”
Date: August 19, 1945
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: 7-paper document regarding some of the interrogation of Hermann Goering during the Nuremberg.
Pages: 7
Price: $150

5. *NEW* “Interrogation of Paul Koerner and Hermann Goering”
Date: April 7, 1946
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: A set of papers from an interrogation of Paul Koerner and Hermann Goering. 4-copies of 4 pages
Pages: 4-copies of 4 pages
Price: $100

6. *NEW* “Plea for Hans Frank before the International Military Tribunal, Nuernberg in the trial of Hermann Goering et al.”
Date: Unknown
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: Seems to be a long speech regarding Hans Frank in a trial of “Hermann Goering et al.”
Pages: 64
Price: $350

7. “International Military Tribunal: British Trial Brief for Joachim v. Ribbentrop”
Date: Not given
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: A trial brief for Joachim von Ribbentrop providing evidence for guilt at the Nuernberg trials. Prosecutor’s notes
Pages: 23 (completely bound together and stapled in the trial brief folder)
Price: $325

8. *NEW* “International Military Tribunal: Defense Document Book #9: Joachim von Ribbentrop”
Date: Many
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: This is a defense booklet of Joachim von Ribbentrop including exhibits trying to prove his innocence. Includes a speech from Roosevelt to Hitler in 1939. Completely bound together and stapled in a trial brief folder with stamps.
Pages: 43
Price: $450

9. *NEW* “International Military Tribunal: Trial Brief Against the Defendant “Rudolf Hess”
Date: Unknown/Many
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: The trial brief against Rudolf Hess is bound together in staples. The front author reads “Robert H. Jackson, U.S Chief of Counsel”. Has all the evidence against Rudolf Hess
Pages: 42
Price: $350

10. “Trial Brief for Alfred Jodl: Document Folder”
Date: Many
Place: Nuernberg
Language: German and English
Background: A compiling of information testifying against Alfred Jodl at Nuernberg. Provides numerous packets of evidence regarding his “guilt”
Pages: Hundreds (not bound together. Loose packets of information regarding the Jodl trial)
Price: $575

11. “Plea for Col. Gen. (retd.) Alfred Jodl” (counsel for the defendant Jodl)
Date: July 1946
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: This is the final plea for Alfred Jodl in the Nuremberg trials. This is the final speech made by his defense counsel on his behalf. Because of the magnitude it is a very long speech (73 pages). All are loose pages
Pages: 73
Price: $400

12. *NEW* “International Military Tribunal: Defense Document Book (2 of 3) Alfred Jodl”
Date: Many
Place: Nuernberg
Language: German (mostly), some English and French translations
Background: This is one of 3 defense document folders in the trial of Alfred Jodl. It is in German and is bound together in a folder with staples with stamps on the top.
Pages: 89
Price: $500

13. “International Military Tribunal: Trial Brief Against the Defendant Martin Bormann”
Date: Unknown
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: The documents for Robert H. Jackson (U.S Chief of Counsel) for charges against Martin Bormann. Evidence provided for his guilt. Prosecutor’s notes
Pages: 48
Price: $325

14. “International Military Tribunal: Individual Responsibility of the Defendant Wilhelm Frick”
Date: July 12, 1946
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: Documents for Robert H. Jackson (U.S Chief of Counsel) for charges against Wilhelm Frick. Evidence provided for his guilt. Prosecutor’s notes
Pages: 35
Price: $300

15. *NEW* “International Military Tribunal: Individual Responsibility of the Defendant Wilhelm Frick”
Date: July 12, 1946
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: The document is set determining guilt of Wilhelm Frick. The front reads “Based upon entire record through and including the presentation of Frick’s documents, the testimony of witnesses [..] and Gisevius and the speech of Frick’s defense counsel.” Complete set is bound together with staples for Robert H. Jackson (U.S Chief of Counsel)
Pages: 38
Price: $225

16. *NEW* “Presentation of the Case Against Wilhelm Frick”
Date: January 10, 1946
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: A set of documents for R.M.W Kempner regarding Wilhelm Frick. The Unique thing is the counselor’s notes that he has hand-written on the set. It is different from any other set of documents.
Pages: 28
Price: $300

17. “International Military Tribunal: Defense Document book 1 (volume 2) Alfred Rosenberg” “The myth of the 20th Century”
Date: Unknown
Place: Nuernberg
Language: Majority English (small bits in German)
Background: These are some of the defense counsels documents regarding the trial of Alfred Rosenberg. Entitled “The Myth of the 20th Century” implying Alfred’s innocence. Has a folder keeping all papers together that is stapled.
Pages: 65
Price: $375


18. “International Military Tribunal: British Trial Brief for Franz von Papen”
Date: Not given (1946)
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: This is the trial brief for the British counsel for the defendant Franz von Papen. The files regarding the evidence for Franz von Papen is stapled in a folder together with a table of contents.
Pages: 21
Price: $350

19. “International Military Tribunal: The Individual Responsibility of The Defendant Hans Frank. For crimes against the peace, war crimes, and crimes against humanity”
Date: Not given (1946)
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: Documents for Robert H. Jackson (U.S Chief of Counsel) for charges against Hans Frank. Evidence provided for his guilt. Prosecutor’s notes. All stapled together.
Pages: 35
Price: $350

20. “International Military Tribunal: The Individual Responsibility of The Defendant Ernst Kaltenbrunner.”
Date: 1, July 1946
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: Documents for Robert H. Jackson (U.S Chief of Counsel) for charges against Ernst Kaltenbrunner. Evidence provided for his guilt. Prosecutor’s notes. All stapled together.
Pages: 53
Price: $400

21. “The Gestapo and the SD and Ernst Kaltenbrunner: Trial Brief”
Date: 10 November, 1945
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: These are documents expressing guilt for the Gestapo (secret police) and criminal acts committed by the organization and leader. This covers not only the person, but the entire organization. This is one of the rarer of the bunch.
Pages: 83
Price: $850

22. *NEW* “Trial Brief Against the Defendant Arthur Seyss-Inquart”
Date: Many
Place: Nuernberg
Language: English
Background: The grouping of documents regarding the guilt of Arthur Seyss-Inquart. Bound together with staples (except the cover page)
Pages: 84
Price: $300

Questions e-mail: line_of_fire55-md@yahoo.com or PM me. I am negotiable on the prices and the larger you buy the more reasonable I become. I don't want to sell these, but I have to pay for university costs this year.
"History, despite its wrenching pain, cannot be unlived, but if faced with courage, need not be lived again"

Searching for material from the invasion of Poland, 1939!

Mansal D
Enthusiast

[Lt. Martin]

I was confused for a second about the issue at hand. I understand now,

Thanks,
Swayne

[Don D.]

Read the linked thread above and decide for yourself.

[Harry W. Mazal]

Mr. De Los Santos and the District Attorney's team have so far managed to revover about one-fourth of the stolen documents. It is a tribute to the members of this forum that several have replied and returned documents that they purchased in good faith from the perpetrator of the crime. We are hopeful that this trend will continue and are enormously grateful to the leadership and the membership of Wehrmacht Awards for their enthusiastic and responsible response to this sad situation.

Harry W. Mazal

[DonC]

Harry, I am very sorry that your efforts to help young researchers were taken advantage of in such a crass and despicable way. I hope that these documents are soon returned to you.

Don

[John Pen.]

R.I.P. Harry W. Mazal

R.I.P. Mr. Mazal, you accomplished much in your life.
J.p.

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/art...st-2136383.php


Hopefully the piece of garbage that wronged you will get what he deserves.

[Michael Fay]

Just found out today from De Los Santos that Mr.Mazal has passed away .
I had a good email conversation with him once.
Just checked on WAF for him and so felt like saying "rest in peace Harry Mazal."

[MarcRikmenspoel]

Here's an update, first linked on the Feldgrau forum:

http://www.mysanantonio.com/news/loc...en-3650145.php

[juoneen]

A good possible suggestion that should be heeded.

I have two suggestions that should be discussed : 1. Either end all sales through the forum , or 2.force all forum sales (regardless of what they are), to have to be posted to the forum in private , recording all pretinent info ,as to a photo of the sold item,sale sold price, and sellers real name and address, and also the buyers photo ID that has to be proveable is in fact authentic ,with a copy of photo ID for both(checked for authenticity of both parties through their local police agencies in the town and country of origin ,PRIOR to allowing all deals to go down). This information should be kept confidential as I said ,and not posted but required by the forum owners held in a file forever for future reference just for cases like this. Maybe even a 2% commission on top to handle storing that information .
To mandate a program with a verifyable photo ID requirements by all who wish to do business here will curtail much of the fraud that continues to perpetrate here,such as this fisaco , which gives the forum a black eye even though the forum was not part of the deal, although the WAF indirectly is in a way a partner technicly through their membership fee that only allows paying members to sell here, whereas non paying members cannot,and clearly provide the medium to carry out the actions as a hidden partner.
IF the forum refuses to come up with a protective plan such as this suggestion ,to cover their own pituti's,..... some day they may be litigated against ,possibly for not effecting some checks and balances, as to where items paper trails lead , or for running an "e stand "outlet as it is called here, that criminals from all countrys use to effect successful sales of stolen memorabilia. Otherwise the forum is in a way not much better than E Bay, that now cannot manage the fraud perpetrated in our hobby.

IF this had been done , all items would have been recovered,allparties identitys known 100%, and nothing would have been lost to those disreputible of charachter ,who are being protected by this creep to this day so far, and obviously by no admission of their own , hide the fact they were part of the transactions, and thinking they will never get caught ,refuse to do as honest collectors would to do the right thing as many have here , and return the items to its rightful place .
I also suggest that if the other buyers who still retain the purchased stolen documents are ever caught in the future, they should , when identified as one of the players in this purchasing of the stolen documents be banned forever from the WAF, and prosecuted to the full extent of the law , for hiding the fact they were a buyer in this disheartening blow to our hobby, as this incident casts a further shadow on the good honest people who collect legitimately here as a hobby.

[Hank C.]

I have two suggestions that should be discussed : 1. Either end all sales through the forum ,

or 2.force all forum sales (....edit... .
To mandate a program with a verifyable photo ID requirements by all who wish to do business here will curtail much of the fraud ...edit....
IF the forum refuses to come up with a protective plan such as this suggestion ,....edit....Otherwise the forum is in a way not much better than E Bay, that now cannot manage the fraud perpetrated in our hobby.

IF this had been done , all items would have been recovered,allparties identitys known 100%, and nothing would have been lost ...edit....

casts a further shadow on the good honest people who collect legitimately here as a hobby.

Um, #1 is actually possible.

Everything after that is pretty much not. The forum can't force anybody to do anything, not everything would have been recovered, things would have been innocently sold on to other unsuspecting buyers, and cheaters and frauds would still find ways to cheat and defraud people. Etcetera, Etcetera, Etcetera.

Hank

EDIT - actually, #1 isn't possible either. People would still PM people to buy stuff, things would go bad, and somebody would complain. It's happened before, and will again. So #1 is out too.

[erikjo]

R.I.P. Mr. Mazal

[kevin john]

It is a shame that human beings can stoop so low in the search for money and i take my hat off to the honest members who returned there documents even though they bought them in good faith Kevin.