rare find : Admiral Graf Spee

[Torpedomaat]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1239wt_1114

a well known press photo + fake signature = $1,052.00

[crowback]

Graf

I am not saying it is or is not original but they are clearly not the same - just very similar in appearance.

[max history]

The bottom one is an obvious forgery in my opinion.
Max.

[12thPanzer]

Definitely not the same. Someone tried pretty hard to copy it, and it obviously paid off in the end because it sold for so much. But you can tell on the signature that is underlined that the signer didnt sign it in one fluent motion. They started the first couple letters. then stopped, looked at it and then continued to write, like they were looking at an image of the original when trying to copy it. Just my 2 cents

[argieboy]

The same seller sold this photo and doc "signed" by Langsdorff,
on ebay about a year ago.

[12thPanzer]

see, he gets away with doing this stuff because the average "ebay buyers" who are usually easily taken advantage of, are not going to be able to prove that the sellers items are fakes. So they have no reason to believe that it is a fake. Im not saying that every buyer off ebay is a sucker, because thats not true....but its just that a wide range of people are buying on ebay, so the chances of the seller making a sale is pretty high no matter fake or not. I dunno if this second one is a fake, but given the history....im betting it is

[argieboy]

Note that on the doc the date was originally 1940 (Langsdorff commited suicide in 1939) and it was crossed out and backdated to 1939. Also, the place was originally Martin Garcia island (where Langsdorrf never set foot) and it was crossed out and changed to Buenos Aires port, a place he did indeed arrive to after the scuttling of the Graff Spee in front of the coast of Montevideo, Uruguay.
As regards to the photo, he shot himself the following day that pic was taken, so I would not put too much faith on that one either.

[bobwolf]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...ht_1239wt_1114

a well known press photo + fake signature = $1,052.00

In my opinion this one is not the same that appear in the print. I think he found a blank card and they make this
well in the red circle you can see the difference, between the both, you can see the distance some times is different and some letters like the S in the last red Circle.
I wouldn't buy

[bobwolf]

another fake item in ebay from Graf Spee

http://cgi.ebay.com/ADMIRAL-GRAF-SPE...ht_1204wt_1185


Well you can see in the pictures some differences.
1º Were is the other part of the stamp
2º why the picture is above the Name ?
3º why don't have the number with hole in the picture ?
4º in the other page you can see the number with hole, but not in the picture.
5ºWhy they give a passaport for some one that was intern in Argentina.
6º In the passaport tell: that the passaport only can be valid with the picture with number in the picture.

[VtwinVince]

I'm not surprised this sort of rubbish is being pedalled, as Langsdorff material is rare. I have some items courtesy of his son, but unfortunately not signed.

[RITTMEISTER]

I have purchased many old passports, and I can explain in detail all the questions
The picture of you ask, is simply sealed by the ministry of the interior of Argentina, they took a photo initialed. For all staff.
2 ° In the signature is read, perfectly firm Paul W. Ascher
3 ° It is very common that Argentine passports overlaps the photograph labeled the numbering, so this way if the picture is off, the rope passport.
5 ° The documentation was granted to officers of the ship, therefore, also were referred to other embassies.
6 ° is normally found on Argentine passports, photographs larger the measure.

I bought the passport and I can assure you that it is authentic

[RITTMEISTER]

Please see other purchase you make is contrasted with all the questions you ask



http://www.ebay.com/itm/250851898667

[RITTMEISTER]

Hey bobwolf
would be very interesting friend, you learn to earn money to buy pieces of collection, this forum is for people who buy parts, not for those who criticize what we buy

[VtwinVince]

Wrong, Herr Rittmeister. This is a forum for the questioning of items and the dissemination of knowledge, in light of the deluge of outright fakes which have been flooding the market in recent years. If you have problems with this, you need to find another outlet.

[RITTMEISTER]

It happens that this person has defiled my purchase, nothing more to say.