Combined late war tactical / unit signs on black ground

[Holger_Erdmann]

Hello,

today I'd like to start a new thread about combined late war tactical / unit markings on vehicles which were mainly painted on black ground. It seems that these markings were only used by east front units and that they were introduced in early April 1944.

These markings consisted:

1: The unit sign
2: The tactical marking of the sub-unit (or unit in the case of independent units)
3: An abbreviation for the sub-unit (for example: Pz.A.A.13 for Panzer Aufklärungs Abteilung 13)
4: Mainly painted on black ground (other colours like dark grey, white or directly painted on the base colour can be found, too)

There are several derivates of this marking system. For example, 5. Panzer Division used only the division sign and the tactical marking on black ground. Other units used only the tactical marking or the unit sign on black ground.

Interestingly, this marking system can not be found on vehicles used in Italy or France.

Until now, the following divisions using this combined marking system could be identified based on time period photos:

10. Panzergrenadier Division
3. Panzer Division
4. Panzer Division (on black shield)
9. Panzer Division (or other unit using a similar unit sign?)
12. Panzer Division
13. Panzer Division
14. Panzer Division
20. Panzer Division

Derivates were used by following units (assortment):

5. Panzer Division (missing the unit abbreviation)
16. Panzer Division (only unit sign on back shield)
23. Panzer Division (painted directly on the base colour)
Großdeutschland (painted directly on base colour)
251. Infanterie Division (missing tnbe unit abbreviation)
Heeres Artillerie Abteilung (RSO) 430 (painted on white ground)

I'd like to collect further photos of this combined marking system to identify further units or sub-units using this marking system. Another interesting question is, if somebody ever read and order to apply this marking system.

In the following posts, I'd like to present some photos of my collection and some painted unit markings so that everybody can see about what I'm talking about.

Kind Regards,

Holger Erdmann (www.kfzderwehrmacht.de)

Attached photo of an Sd. Kfz. 233 of Pz.A.A. 14 of 14. Panzer Division photographed on 15th April 1944.

[Holger_Erdmann]

This picture was painted according to the photo shown above:

[Holger_Erdmann]

Another example of 12. Panzer Division:

[Holger_Erdmann]

And the picture painted based on this example:

[Holger_Erdmann]

One example of 13. Panzer Division with two different markings:

[Holger_Erdmann]

The first marking (from VW Typ 82):

[Holger_Erdmann]

The second marking (on the lorry in the background):



Hope somebody is interested in this topic...

[jmark]

Attached photo of an Sd. Kfz. 233 of Pz.A.A. 14 of 14. Panzer Division photographed on 15th April 1944.

Very interesting, I didn't know any of this. I'm sorry I can't help because I have very few photos in my collection after 1942.

However, note that in the first photo there is another tactical symbol on the top right of the back plate, which is different to the one on the black background.

Jason

[Holger_Erdmann]

Hello Jason,

thank's for your answer. The two different tactical signs had the same meaning: Panzerspähkompanie.
The one in the black rectangular is the newer one (introduced in 1943). It is based on the ground symbol for Panzeraufklärer. The other is the older variant used prior to the newer one.
Interestingly, Pz. A. A. 14 was newly created in 1943 after the Division was destroyed in Stalingrad. The new unit was a Panzeraufklärungsabteilung from the beginning on. What we often see, is the wrong usage of the old tactical markings after the new were introduced.
In the case of the shown Sd. Kfz. 233, we see the new markings on black background applied in early April 1944 and the older tactical marking and division sign used in the time bevore the new combined markings were applied. Possibly, someone was to lazy to remove them...

Regards, Holger.

[Akira Takiguchi]

6.Panzer-Division also implemented this marking. Known widely from Sd.Kfz.251 series photos but on this photo of a bicycle you can find a variation.

[Holger_Erdmann]

Thanks Akira.

Forgot 6. Panzer Division. We had a photo of this Division in the thread in AHF.

http://forum.axishistory.com/viewtop...70929&start=15

But I have never seen the combined markings on black ground on a 6. Panzer Division vehicle. Where can I find the Sd. Kfz. 251 series photos you are talking about? I only know a handful of such photos but on these I can only see the new division sign of 6. PD.

Sadly, it seems that only a few persons are interested in this subjekt.

Regards,

Holger.

http://www.kfzderwehrmacht.de/index.html

[Akira Takiguchi]

Dear Holger, my memory betrayed me, you were correct; there were no Taktische Zeichen nor unit specification in those 251s. Most probably my memory confused it with 20.Pz.Div. 251/7 or along the line.

Mr. Kitamura once mentioned this late-war system in one of his serial articles Panzerblatt in Armour Modelling magazine. Maybe he could chime in for more information.

[Akira Takiguchi]

This is considered to be a variation, though it has only black border instead of black rectangle. Nachrichten-Abteilung 292, 292.Infanterie-Division.

[H. Kitamura]

Official Marking System ?

Hello Hogler,

thank you for sharing the interesting photos of the combined marking system on the vehicles.
At first, this marking is not only seen on the Eastern front, but also on the Western front.
An old classic IWM photo of Sd.Kfz.251/7 Ausf.D captured by Allied force has a combined marking. I just remeber the photo given to page 41 of "Wehrmacht Camouflage and Markings 1939-1945" by W.J.K.Davis, Almark Publishing 1972.
It shows the unit's insignia of 2.Panzer-Division, the name of the sub unit is unclear, and the tactical marking for motorised Pionier-Komapnie with the company number on black or darker shade square. The vehicle thus belonged to 3.Kompanie / Pz.Pi.Btl.38 on the Western Front.
As there is a photo that shows an Lkw of 1.Werkstatt-Kompanie Grossdeutschland likely photographed in Autumn 1943, the combined marking system may be introduced during such period.
And, I believe there should be an official order to apply such marking.

[Akira Takiguchi]

Thank you, Kitamura-san!

I have found another photo in my collection, it is a photo of a man who was in Obf.-lehrgang in late war. Definitely an Ersatz- or Ausbildungs-Abteilung but I can't read the number. No Truppenkennzeichen, but tactical marking + unit name in rectangle.