Urkunde

[Filincars]

Hello,

please let me know who signed this document?!
Thanks a lot.

[Jon. H]

Signed, or supposedly signed by SS Obergruppenführer (Later Oberstgruppenführer) Josef "Sepp" Dietrich.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Josef_Dietrich


Dietrich_in_color_01.jpg

[Filincars]

Hm, i dont think so thats Sepp Friedrich.
Can in this periode be another Obergruppenführer be there and signed it?

[Jon. H]

Hm, i dont think so thats Sepp Friedrich.
Can in this periode be another Obergruppenführer be there and signed it?

No, it's Dietrich without any doubt. Of course other officers could have signed it, but not as Kommandeur LSSAH which at the time this doc is dated was Sepp Dietrich.

Dietrich was also the only LAH commander who held the rank as Obergruppenführer.



SS-Oberstgruppenführer Joseph Dietrich (1 Sep 1939 - 4 July 1943)
SS-Brigadeführer Theodor Wisch (4 July 1943 - 20 Aug 1944)
SS-Brigadeführer Wilhelm Mohnke (20 Aug 1944 - 6 Feb 1945)
SS-Brigadeführer Otto Kumm (6 Feb 1945 - 8 May 1945)

[Revellations]

I noticed the award winner first before the signature...

[Filincars]

Then it must be a fake.
The Sign looks not like Dietrichs sign.
I saw a original Sign from him and this dont look like on my pics.
Thanks a lot for your detailed opinion!

[Brian R]

The signature does not look like Dietrich's and the recipient, alone, is a red flag. Shouldn't it have been Sturmgeschütz-Abteilung and not Battr.?

[Jon. H]

Then it must be a fake.
The Sign looks not like Dietrichs sign.
I saw a original Sign from him and this dont look like on my pics.
Thanks a lot for your detailed opinion!

That's true, it's very different to Dietrich's signature. And really fishy with that name on it.

[Simon O.]

Batterie is correct for this period but the sig is way off Dietrich's

[kuratorium]

100% original Dietrich´s signature IMHO !!!
Sepp´s signature was in different time periods very various !!!
Here is for example another original LSSAH EK2 citation with very similar signature, and also from 1941...

[hucks216]

So what you are saying is that you have found a citation belonging to Michael Wittmann - one to such a well known 3rd Reich 'personality' has come on to the market and no one has heard about it?? Highly doubtful. And wouldn't he of listed his position as SS-Obergruppenfuhrer und General der Waffen-SS as shown in this 1943 dated citation - a rank that he held from 1940 (with seniority dating back to 1934.)

[Simon O.]

Here's a long thread with many examples of Dietrich's signature

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...light=dietrich


However bearing in mind who this doc is supposed to be to it'd need to come with cast iron provenance.

[kuratorium]

@ Simon Orchard :
Thank you for the link !

[Filincars]

thank you(DANKE )

[markus]

Wittmann

As per Wittmann's Oakleaves recommendation dated June 11, 1944, he was awarded the Iron Cross Second Class on a different day in July, 1941, but not on July 11, 1941.

There are differences between award doc dates and dates mentioned in recommendation papers though. So there is a margin for error.