question on award document and signature.

[Stijn David]

Hello,


Here is one of my latest aquisitions => a EK 2 awarded in Africa (more specifyed Tunesia), is there anyone who can give me more information about the signature ?

This document is part of the following grouping: http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...ad.php?t=37906

Cordial greetings,

[Dick Pumphrey]

The last name looks like "Broich" to me.

Regards,
Dick

[Michael Miller]

von Broich

Looks like Broich to me, too, and there was of course a "von Broich" who served in Nordafrika. Here's a brief biography:

Best wishes,
~ Mike Miller / ABR



BROICH, Friedrich Freiherr von
(1896-1974)
Generalleutnant
Born: 1. 1. 96 - Straßburg
Died: 24. 9. 74 – Leoni bei Starnberg
Promotions
Gen.Lt.: 1. 5. 43 (Pat. 1. 7. 43); Gen.Maj.: 1. 1. 43; Oberst: 1. 9. 40 (Pat.1.8.39); Obstlt.: 1. 10. 37; Lt. (Ulan.R. 9): 24. 12. 14 (Pat. 23. 6. 13); Eintritt Fhj.: 2. 7. 14
Commands - Assignments
10 Pz. D.: 5. 2. 43 - 12. 5. 43 (in Afrika in Kgf.)
Div. Broich: 10. 11. 42
24 Pz. Gr. Brig.: Dez. 41
1 Kav. Brig.: Aug. 41
Kav. R. 22: 25: 9. 40
Kav. R. 21: 6. 12. 39
Kav. R. 6: 1. 9. 39
II/Kav. Rgt. 6: 12. 11. 38
Reichswehr
Awards & Decorations
- - Ritterkreuz: am 29.08.1942 als Oberst und Komm. 24. Panzerbrigade
- - Deutsches Kreuz in Gold: am 02.11.1941 als Oberst und Komm. Reiter-Regiment 22
- - 1939 EK I –S-
- - 1939 EK II –S-
- - 1914 EK I
- - 1914 EK II
- - Verwundetenabzeichen, 1918 in Schwarz
- - K.u.K. Österr. Militär-Verdienstkreuz III Klasse mit der Kriegsdekoration
- - Ehrenkreuz für Frontkämpfer
- - Wehrmacht-Dienstauszeichnung I Klasse
- - Ärmelband “Afrika”

[Stijn David]

Signature

Hello,


Thank you both for helping me out => is there anyone who can show anotehr signature of Freiherr von Broich ?

It is always nice to know who did sign certain award documents and i certainly believe we have another match => and a highly decorated one !!!!!!!!


Thanks once again and cordial greetings,

[Walter Sp]

Hey Stijn,

interesting document you have there, but there are a couple of things, I don't understand:


1.) the fieldpostnumber 06505 never belongs to the Regiment v. Barenthin
(Kannapin, Die deutsche Feldpostübersicht, Band 1, Seite 132)
2.) in february 1943 Oberst v. Walter v. Barenthin was the commanding
officer of the Regiment v. Barenthin and nobody else
(Mehner, Die deutsche Luftwaffe, Seite 79, 00.00.1942 - 00.04.1943)
3.) if v. Broich has given the signature, he has forgotten, that he was
promoted to Generalmajor one month before ?
4.) if you study the document for the ground combat badge you can see the
signature of v. Barenthin as a Generalmajor and commanding officer
(Höherer Kommandeur der Ersatz-und Ausbildungseinheiten der Fallschirm- Armee, 15.02.1944 - 30.12.1944)

greetings

Walle

[Stijn David]

strange things

Hi Walter,


Indeed => I also do not understand a few things but as this grouping is directly veteran obtained I believe the docs.

* Could you advise me on to wich regiment the fieldpostnumber belonged?

* In regards towards von Broich and his promotion, i have found a source that states that the actual promotion of von Broich took part on 15.02.1943, it is indeed true that according towards his RDA he was eligible to be promoted on 01.01.1943 (check out:http://www.specialcamp11.fsnet.co.uk...n%20Broich.htm)

According to this very same source the following is also true, between 10 November 1942 and 5 february 1943 von Broich was delegated with the commanding of the Division " von Broich " in Tunesia (initial formed to hold the bridgehead Bizerte and consisted out of various units such as parts of the luftwaffen Regiment Barenthin, etc ... ) .

Iff we follow this information then everything is perfectly legit IMHO !!!

There are just some things that seems strange nowadays but the longer you collect etc ... i have experienced first hand that there are always popping up exeptions to the rules !!!

Iff you take a look at for example the Africa document you will see that it is predated but it is only awarded long after the 1. Mai 1943 as that time my friend was still in the hospital recovering from his wounds and it was not before 1 Oktober that he was promoted towards the rank of Feldwebel.

Another strange thing is that he received his Erdkampfabzeichen almost 1 year and a half after the actual qualification dates for this badge ( talking about delays in awardings !) ???????

Cordial greetings,

ps: Walter, will the Cholmarticle be published?

[Akira Takiguchi]

Otto Schäuble's Erdkampfabzeichen document is also dated late, October 1st, 1944 (with Flugzeugführerschule A7).

[Ian Jewison]

Ortskommandantur 960 (FP No. 06505)

Formed 10.9.1940 in Wehrkreis III; 8.12.1942 disbanded.
Under: Panzer Gruppe Afrika in Derna

Division von Broich

Formed 15.11.1942 in Afrika from Ortskommandantur II/960; also known as Schützen Brigade von Broich; Renamed 11.2.1943 Division von Manteuffel.

The above should explain why it is in use on a document signed by von Broich! Although FP Nr. 06505 was officially cancelled due to the disbandment of Orts.Kdtr. 960 in 1942, Division von Broich appears never to have received an official FP Nr. so the only thing to use was the old units FP Nr.!!!!

Did not know about the von Broich connection, however Rgt. Barenthin did come under Division Manteuffel March-May 1943.

/Ian

[Stijn David]

superior !!!!!!!!!!!

Hello,


Thank you very very much for the extra information => that is exactly what i was looking for . I believe that there is a good chance that these awards where simply prestamped and mayby even pre-signed before the other info such as the name of the recipient, etc .... was entered.

On the other hand we also have the possibility that altough the Ortskommandantur 960 was officially disbanded they still had the stamps somwhere and used them simply because there where no otehr alternatives available.

Anyway my 2 above mentioend points are just guesses offcoarse but the above shown award document prooves very well that even at first sight strange things can be prooven real !!!!!!!!

Cordial greetings and thanks towards al the persons who replyed,

ps: Akira; as Schäuble's document for the erdkampfabzeichen is also dated quite late that makes it even more interesting as your person did qualify even during his Cholmdays !!!!!!!!!, then again he qualifyed even more in Africa and it was only in late 1944 that he received the actual award => talking about award delays