Himmler Signature

[PZIV]

I have a set of documents that seems to be signed by Himmler. This wasn't sold to me, but simply given to me, so the person who did give it to me had no real reason to lie. We should look at the item, not story though...

The packet of papers (from what I've been told by a friend of mine) seems to have something to do with dueling. The rules, expectations etc. are included. I can attach a scan of the entire first page if it helps you all, but for now I'm just going to attach a scan of the signature. The thing I find kind of odd is the cool little squiggle after he finishes the signature.



A hand written letter came with it dated 1921, so I'm not sure if this signature is around that date rather than a later date.

Thanks in advance.

[max history]

Not signed by Himmler. Can we see the entire page please?
Max.

[PZIV]

Thanks for the response. Can you explain why? Here is a copy of the full document. If it isn't Himmler's it is quite bizarre to fake his signature on this type of document.

Sorry for the large photo: Just so you know this is one of about 15 pages. None of the other have anything handwritten - they're all typed.

[Antonio Scapini]

At the beginning i thought it can have some possibilities to be an early one. I looked at some signatures around the first half of '30 and i thought this one was original.
Some details as the distances are correct... BUT Himmler never signed with an R like this.
This is a fake handwritten. Sorry.
Obviously IMO.

[max history]

I can never understand why people do not get the concept of image size. All you have to do is reduce the image to a maximum of 750 pixels on any one longest side. Here is the same image.....simple.
Max.

[max history]

Now to answer your question.............
Why do you suppose the RFSS would sign such a document at the top of the first page? Also, what is that squiggle after the signature in the same hand? Apart from that, it is a poor attempt at copying his signature.
Sorry, but whichever way you look at it, Antony is quite right....it's a forgery.
Regards,
Max.

[Robin Lumsden]

Max.

I just wonder if this could be something from Himmler's early student days?

The monogram after his signature is a typical student society logo, like the one below......................

Just a thought.

[PZIV]

Now to answer your question.............
Why do you suppose the RFSS would sign such a document at the top of the first page? Also, what is that squiggle after the signature in the same hand? Apart from that, it is a poor attempt at copying his signature.
Sorry, but whichever way you look at it, Antony is quite right....it's a forgery.
Regards,
Max.

Sorry to inconvenience you so much.

In any case thank you for your responses. One reason I asked was because the squiggle was bizarre. I wonder if it has anything to do with what Robin said. If someone was going to fake a signature why would they put the squiggle so obviously NOT like any other (that I've seen).

Another good point is to why Himmler would sign this document. My only explanation could be that at this point (like I said maybe around 1921 or so) he was not RFSS.

Just out of curiousity for these points. I'm not hanging on to this as being authentic - I didn't spend a cent on this and I will not lose any sleep...

[max history]

Sorry, Robin, but I have several examples of his early signature (including one school book) and they are not like this. They are very similar to his later signature, but slightly more rounded, i.e. not so sharp. And can you honestly say that the signature looks to be written by the hand of Himmler? If anything, his younger signature was neater than his later examples. Added to this, his early signatures were nearly all with his first name Heinrich written in full.
The squiggle at the end of the signature maybe a forger's attempt at some student logo, but look at it.....it's nonsense.
And we still heve no answer to my question....why on earth would he be signing such a document and why at the top of the first page? This is a common trait of a forger.
Max.

[Robin Lumsden]

Hello Max.

Of course, I defer to your knowledge of these things.

I just thought it might be a paper from Himmler's early student days.

My thoughts were:

1. The squiggle is definitely a student society logo. There were dozens of these, which you can find on all sorts of things, especialy bierzipfels, from that period. I can't understand why anyone else (except him) would put this after Himmler's name. Students wrote these after their names to show their allegiance to a particular university club or society.

2. The paper seems to relate to the Rothenburg Student Society, which Himmler was a member of (the Apollonia was part of it).

3. I think the name is written on it to show that the paper is his property.............not a 'signature' as such. Just as someone would write his name on a book he owns.

4. I thought the signature did look like some of the earlier ones..........as per the card below, although as you know very well he wrote 'Heinrich' on that.

Anyway, these were my humble thought processes after looking at the thing without the benefit of any reference books for 30 seconds.

I'm no doubt barking up the wrong tree.

[clevischi]

I do agree with Max, its hard to say its an original one.

[Robin Lumsden]

I do agree with Max, its not a genuine example of Himmler signature.

OK.............no problem.

At least we all know about old student logos now!

[Robin Lumsden]

I do agree with Max, its hard to say its an original one.

Slight change of phrase there!

Lingering doubts?

[Hundestaffel]

There sure have been some, shall we say, "interesting" threads in this section over the last few weeks, like the ever-so-mysterious "Himmler's daughter's wartime diary" thread etc., all the threads (oddly) having one single common denominator.

"Hundestaffel"

[Robin Lumsden]

.......common denominator.

What was that, please?

I haven't been reading the other threads you refer to.