CCCiG Award Doc

[will382]

Hi, received this award document today. Was just looking for opinions! Does anyone have any info on the winner?

Also, does £140 sound about right?

[Justin P]

Quick look throw Manfred Dorr Book, And I see no Ludwig Drecher as being Listed......I'm sure Ive seen this Doc on a Dealers Site. £140 Make it £1400 and you might be lucky to get Original CCCIG Document.

[Thomas Durante]

Hi guys,

A few people have asked me about this, so I figured I would just add my comments here in the post.

The document is a little strange, since Dreher doesn't show up in any record book I know of for the CCC in gold, I would expect a very late award date. However, a September 1944 date is well within officially documented
time period, so I am very shocked to see that he is not a known
recipient. There are documented gold recipients as late as April &
May 1945!

I also did a bit of research on the battalion and it looks to have
been dissolved in January 1943, so that is another oddity that would
need an explanation. There are guys that are much more knowledgable
about formations, signatures and dates on award docs, so I would send
this document to someone like Simon Orchard to see if he can makes heads or tales of it.

And ofcourse the obvious marking of 15 days, which is struck through
to make a 50. That could be a logical mistake for a clerk to make
since most docs were for 15 days, but it is also easy to change this
since the class of the award could also be up'ed from "I" to "III"
pretty easily as well. However, the characters all look similar and
seem to be from the same time period, so this could very well be OK.
I would be more concerned with the fact that the recipient isn't know
and that his formation was disloved 18 months prior to his awarding
date.

Tom

[will382]

Thanks Tom, I think there is a high chance of this doc being promoted from 3 to 1, but the dissolved unit would still remain a mystery!

It really does look and feel like a period document. In comparison to other docs I have, everything matches up, including the blue crayon-like signature.

I've added a bigger picture for a better idea:

[Jochen1000]

Maybe my thinking is too simple but: does a guy who is only a Gefreiter in an
artillery unit (!) get a CCC in gold? And if so, does he get an award document
with a writing error in the very first word?

[dennisb]

Maybe my thinking is too simple but: does a guy who is only a Gefreiter in an
artillery unit (!) get a CCC in gold? And if so, does he get an award document
with a writing error in the very first word?

To be honest with you, I agree on that.

[will382]

does he get an award document
with a writing error in the very first word?

I also agree, mistakes and adjustments did raise concern for me straight away. Conveniently, the picture on the website wasn't big enough to see all of the details...

My opinion on this doc is that it is a period piece, but it has unfortunately been edited to the highest level of the award. Perhaps a collector did it to match their own badge? As Tom said, the writing is all period but a couple of extra I's could easily be added.

I actually bought it on behalf of someone else, so I will await their opinion.

The dealer offers a 3 day inspection period, and I can return it for a refund less postage if I don't want it. Alternatively, I payed through PayPal so I could open a dispute.

How should I approach returning it? Should I tell him it's suspicious and that he should give me a full refund with postage costs covered? Or just send it back and lose out on a tenner?

Thanks for your help so far, this is my first "fake"... it hurts

[Jochen1000]

Hm, I tried out something. If you look at the pictures I added ... don't you think
that the "I" on the right looks different than the other two?

If you ask me - this is never a gold CCC ... but it may well have
been a bronce one

[hucks216]

That's a great bit of work Jochen.

[stewy]

That's a great bit of work Jochen.

Indeed,well done. Stewy

[Justin P]

Looking throw the Grade CCC Docs I have, They all Display 1 For CCCIB Not "I" But they could easily be Changed to III As mentioned.

[Justin P]

Example of III

[Anil]

Hello gentlemen,

I am not expert. But please look combat days number. This part looks like falsified.

KR

[will382]

Thanks guys, although I agree with the last I being "stronger", in justintime's above example I see the first I as stronger than the others?

Besides that, I agree there's something wrong and I think it will be returned. Should I ask for postage costs as well?

[Ian Jewison]

Hello gentlemen,

I am not expert. But please look combat days number. This part looks like falsified.

KR

Yes....could be a I that has been changed to a III and also the 0 in 50 is actually a "o" and not "0"

/Ian