rare documents grouping! Signed hitler and himmler with medals

[chris235]

recently managed to pick up this document grouping
The grouping belonged to JOSEF HEUTZ a Major in the Schutzpolizei ... it consists of 9 documents and 4 medals

2 of the documents are hand signed by Himmler and a few signed by hitler with what looks like a facsimile
Another i could make out was by Göring .. some of the documents were also tapered so that they could fit in a polly pocket by the previous owner (unfortunatly) if you know any information about any of the documents or about JOSEF HEUTZ it would be greatly appreciated.

Some of the original medals to go along with the documents are there

History
All the history that i could find out about this grouping was that it was hidden in a small bricked in room in a house and was discovered while it was being renovated... apparently there were many more hand signed documents and letters by hitler in this room but i dont know what happened to them.

Any information would be great
If anyone could give me a relistic valulation for the different documents\medals and for the whole group that would be greatly appreciated again as i am not a great fan of paper work and am willing to sell them to a collector who may appreciate them more

appreciated ... hope you enjoy

if anione needs more pics or something dont hesitate to ask

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/CSa58amlcsP11ThF61qmOw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXyl22me2HI/AAAAAAAAACY/CGcS-Gw9yew/s800/_MG_1227_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/vIerNQwbPFZODBwuwhfRiw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh5.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXy***wrYHI/AAAAAAAAADc/Xt_RmJ7JpVQ/s800/_MG_1282_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/22VXDFINduW3voPvKcHoDQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXymc1moCLI/AAAAAAAAADk/0sD8Gynab3g/s800/_MG_1283_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/IB7hXCIlJ6QG8hGMH8R0aw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXymb7PizpI/AAAAAAAAADU/hs74uWMVAG8/s800/_MG_1280_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/JPfsZ4TUxiXrvitDvFwA-w?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXymlhWl87I/AAAAAAAAAD0/A1WmXEk1VOY/s800/IMG_1245_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/ZLOZu5np4gfwY1KDNLjliA?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXyl3RNMCUI/AAAAAAAAACg/7IKahe1hsrk/s800/_MG_1274_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/xqpvEKNMGMbgPPmLjOB2mw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXyl4B4abSI/AAAAAAAAACo/JFFSckZXFDA/s800/_MG_1275_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/FscxfMZLCteefB1BzTSz3A?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXyl4P2rWzI/AAAAAAAAACw/HRdmmbMWcAs/s800/_MG_1276_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/d6NIIoppUOsZ4AtoMQT6eQ?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh3.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXyl4gW4c2I/AAAAAAAAAC4/xCcWwdBj38s/s800/_MG_1277_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/GHcCXTGwMDfGq869CFBB_w?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXyma3BAr4I/AAAAAAAAADE/pb2Ho_W2VZ4/s800/_MG_1278_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/PIxwxacDO0ZXsh2OiPiPpg?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXymbX4m2UI/AAAAAAAAADM/LLtD_WwCMlA/s800/_MG_1279_wm.JPG" /></a>

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/mNh6d7Xw8xRtbIrMpEOcMw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXymlBBdCbI/AAAAAAAAADs/MDYbm2bEnBQ/s800/_MG_1287_wm.JPG" /></a>

[Simon O.]

That's a really nice Schupo grouping. Shame about the trimming, the Himmler sigs look like they're by hand but the Hitler and Göring ones are facsimile. Also, you've got a 25 year faithfull service medal mixed up with a police 25 year long service document. Very strange indeed to see a KVKII without swords along with KVK I and II with.

[chris235]

Hi

Yeah There was alot in the box I will post pics up!

It was our mistake, there are so many bits and bobs...

I will post the pic here....

[chris235]

bits and bobs

heres the box of stuff that came with the documents
the guy said that his dad owned the boxed 50 year medal and was in ww1 and ww2 were he was in the gebirgsjager (so the 25 year one must have been his aswell)

sorry for any confusion caused

would you know a realistic price for this grouping?
and also i have been trying to find out what the breast eagle is from .. but still havent found any like it

thanks

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/jwCBvsw2NE0lvEwLEoqW9w?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh4.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXzMB3B0aXI/AAAAAAAAAD8/m1Mp6MWjGUQ/s800/_MG_1311.JPG" /></a>

[chris235]

göring signature

after a closer inspection, yea the 1944 goring signed document is a facsimile
but the 1942 one is a bit smudged but looks like it was hand written

<a href="http://picasaweb.google.de/lh/photo/yokLyqbzRQ8abGwWxzP9sw?feat=embedwebsite"><img src="http://lh6.ggpht.com/_y9E-C-KC1c0/SXzc1XmkVSI/AAAAAAAAAEI/-X9HI5PDmMY/s800/P1030630.JPG" /></a>

[Hank C.]

Great bunch of items...the Luftwaffe Spange doesn't "fit in" either, but may have come from elsewhere in the family.

Nice 50 year decoration too...would have been nice to have the document for that to make a nice matched set.

all the best
Hank

[chris235]

Great bunch of items...the Luftwaffe Spange doesn't "fit in" either, but may have come from elsewhere in the family.

Nice 50 year decoration too...would have been nice to have the document for that to make a nice matched set.

all the best
Hank

I thought that too...
its a 57 version and so are the two bars..


Thanks

[chris235]

Does anone know anything about this eagle?
Its a strange one it has soo much black in it.

Plus any experts on the Goring signature???

Thanks

[max history]

Plus any experts on the Goring signature???

Thanks

In my opinion, the handwritten Göring signature is a fake.
Max.

[Adem]

I think Max is correct, unfortunately. The document appears to be ok, but the typed "Göring" essentially counts as the endorsement along with the stamped Grosskreutz countersignature. The handwritten Göring was likely added to "improve" the document, but his name was printed on the document precisely because he wouldn't be personally signing it. The Himmlers look very good though.

[Simon O.]

I agree with Max and Adem. One can wonder why deface a perfectly good document like that but the same goes for the trimming.

The story is somewhat confused too. If the guy was old enough to earn the civillian 50 year faithful service cross then he wasn't in the Gebirgstruppe during WWII. The breast eagle you'd have to ask the cloth collectors but i'm pretty sure it's a modern repro item.

If you're looking at selling everything then you'd be as well selling the documents together as one group and the other bits and pieces seperately, they clearly don't belong to one or even two men.

[chris235]

thanks alot for your help guys

yea the goring signaure does look a bit dodgy .. it would make sense that someone elso may have done it since his name was printed.
However really wouldnt match up with the story the previous guy told me as he said they were jus left in a hidden room in his ex wifes appartment .. apparently along with alot more (he claims hitler signed docs) but he was to scared to take them.

He broke up with her 6 years a go and has had them ever since

The guy certianly did not know that the documents and medals were worth money .. to him it was a big joke that we would be interested in that stuff.

So he certianly would not have wrote any signatures ... he diddnt even know who goring was

and before him the only person who would have touched the docs would have been heutz himself

hmmm really strange trying to peice everything together

About the 50 year service cross ... he claimed this was from his father, out of everything he was most attached to it. apparently he was a wwI vet, which would have explained why he had many ww1 medals (he wanted to hold on to something, so he still has most of them) and then he claimed he was in the mountain troops.

I will have to ask some more people to make sure of what he said ... a it was rather confusing translating form german to english after a night out

If the breast eagle is a repro ... god knows where it came from ...... i really am confused!!

thanks

[Simon O.]

You can see yourself all this does not belong to one or two men. Test the eagle under UV light, i think you'll find it glows like a beacon, i have a repro one exactly like it.

The, what looks like a 'spanish' gold woundbadge you ought to take better photos of and post on the woundbadge forum. Looks like a nice GJ medallion you have there too.

[chris235]

Mj

Hi, Thanks for the replys I will check the Eagle under the UV and tell the results,

The medals must be from a few guys, as said above.

Also guys about Josef Heutz does anyone have any info on him, I know he was replaced by SS-Hauptsturmführer Paul Degenhardt.

"Degenhardt replaced Hauptmann Heutz in spring 1942 as chief of the Czestochowa police. Between spring and summer 1942 the police command (later called Schupo-Kommando) was extended from 30 - 40 to 50 - 60 Germans. The headquarters were located at the Polish townhouse in 75 Marienallee Street"




Any info at all on him would be nice to see..


Thanks Guys...

[Simon O.]

A question for the police guys in their forum i think.