Photo with two SS Officers ?? Help with more details please!

[ivbaust]

Got this photo a while ago. Can anybody help me with the rank and insignia? Are these 2 officers? Is this a sports badge and a party pin? Is this a German Cross? What cufftitle is it? Sorry for all the questions, but since I´m a dagger guy I´m not familiar with ranks, insignia and other stuff. Thanks for any replies!

[ivbaust]

Here some close ups

[ivbaust]

#2

[ivbaust]

#3

[ivbaust]

#4

[ivbaust]

Here the other SS guy

[ivbaust]

close up #1

[ivbaust]

close up #2

[ivbaust]

final close up ... thanks for your efforts

[johnny_ola2000]

No expert me

They both wear the large cap eagles which would place the photo post 1936, the man on the left seems to have three pips on his collar tab making him a Untersturmführer (second lieutenant), the other man has one oak leaf on his collar tab which should make him a Standartenführer (colonel)

The left man wear the SA sports badge, maybe SS men could also be awarded this , or he transferred from the SA to the SS. The black badge is probably the WWI German Army wound badge in black, he also appears to have a WWII Iron Cross second class ribbon.

Man on the right wears the Nazi party badge plus another badge with a swastika that I'm not familiar with but I'm NO EXPERT so it's probably a common SS or Nazi party badge. I don't believe it is a German Cross in silver or gold, since it had to be worn on the right side pocket. As far as I know, the black SS uniforms were not to be worn after 1940, they were replaced with field grey versions, so I think this photo was taken before WWII which again rules out wearing The German Cross since it was issued in 1941. He is also wearing a WWI Iron Cross second class ribbon plus another ribbon, maybe the SS long service medal?

The cuff title looks like it's just a number or letter, I think it was common for algemeine SS members to have the number of their Standarte on the cuff title.

Hope this helps.

[HPL2008]

Allow me to add a few observations:

They both wear the large cap eagles which would place the photo post 1936, the man on the left seems to have three pips on his collar tab making him a Untersturmführer (second lieutenant), the other man has one oak leaf on his collar tab which should make him a Standartenführer (colonel).

Agreed.

The left man wear the SA sports badge, maybe SS men could also be awarded this , or he transferred from the SA to the SS.

Actually, it was not just possible, but compulsory for SS candidates to qualify for the SA Sports Badge (as well as the German Sports Badge).
(In 1939, when the badge's name was changed from SA-Sportabzeichen (SA Sport's Badge) to SA-Wehrabzeichen (SA Military Sports Badge) and its official status elevated it even became open for every able-bodied male German of at least 17 years of age, regardless of whether he belonged to a Nazi organisation or not.)

The black badge is probably the WWI German Army wound badge in black, he also appears to have a WWII Iron Cross second class ribbon..

Agreed; the other ribbon on his two-place ribbon bar has to be for the 1914/18 Honor Cross for Frontfighters.
He also wears the Ehrenwinkel für Alte Kämpfer (= Honor Chevron for Old Campaigners), denoting that he had been a member of the NSDAP, the SS or another Nazi organisation prior to the seizure of power in 1933.

Man on the right wears the Nazi party badge plus another badge with a swastika that I'm not familiar with but I'm NO EXPERT so it's probably a common SS or Nazi party badge. I don't believe it is a German Cross in silver or gold, since it had to be worn on the right side pocket.

Definitely not the German Cross. What he is wearing is an NSDAP award: The Traditions-Gau-Abzeichen (= Gau Traditions Badge) of the common pattern that was issued by several Gaue for members who had joined the party in 1923 or 1925, respectively. See here for an example:
http://freiwilliger.narod.ru/fotoalbum1.html
His NSDAP membership badge is actually the Golden Party Badge.

As far as I know, the black SS uniforms were not to be worn after 1940, they were replaced with field grey versions, so I think this photo was taken before WWII which again rules out wearing The German Cross since it was issued in 1941. He is also wearing a WWI Iron Cross second class ribbon plus another ribbon, maybe the SS long service medal?

While this is indeed most likely a pre-war-photo, part-timers serving in the Allgemeine SS actually continued to wear their black uniforms into the war years, so theoretically it could be a wartime picture. (Judging from some other details it doesn't seem very likely, though.)
His ribbon bar holds at least four different ribbons, but they cannot be positively identified. The SS long service medal is highly unlikely, though, as this was only issued to personnel of the "armed" branches of the SS (the SSVT, SSTV, SS-Junkerschulen etc.)

The cuff title looks like it's just a number or letter, I think it was common for algemeine SS members to have the number of their Standarte on the cuff title.

Correct; another possibility is the Roman numeral identifying an Abschnitt, but again, the photo is not clear enough to make it legible.

[ivbaust]

Incredible ... you guys are just amazing! Thank you so much for your help!

[johnny_ola2000]

Thanks for upgrading my non-expert reply!

Interesting information about the SA sports badge - That non-Nazis could qualify for it, that's probably why you sometimes see it worn on wehrmacht uniforms.
I though it was because the wearers were former SA men (this could of course still be the case, I guess...)

[inimicus]

the s'fuhrer on right wears the early ("teller") form of the schirmmutze datng to the early '30s. the cap skulls date from even earlier. the "big eagle" is from 1935-on I think but during a transition period new and old insignia were worn. nice pic.

[Simon O.]

both men wear the 1914 EKII ribbon, the standartenführer has a ribbon before his which i can't identify, thet's a question for the emperial guys.

There's a chance the Standartenführer can be identified but you'd probably get a better chance of that if you posted this on the Axis History Forum.