Early SS picture

[415]

Does anyone know what year these early SS pictures might have been taken in?

Photo #1

[415]

photo #2

[Tim K.]

On photo #1, back row far right, is that by any chance Sepp Dietrich?

[Robert H]

This is really interesting. I assume before any regulations where fitted, maybe around 33 or 34? Wonder which collar tabs these are.

[415]

All the guys in the first photo are in the second one as well. Tim. K the gentalment who you think might be Sepp Dietrich is in the second row from the bottom and second man from the right in photo #2.

[derek]

Good photo! These are the special uniforms for sport and motor schools. The collar patch you see is for an instructor. I have more information but it's buried in my files, I'll search it out. Can you post a extreme close-up showing more detail of the caps, which are also a special style for these schools.
As for year, I would guess 1934/5 like Robert.
Thanks
Derek

[415]

Here's the bigger pictures

[415]

Here's the other one

[HPL2008]

Michael Beaver's "Uniforms of the Waffen-SS", Vol. II has a description of this exercise uniform (including a few photographs, one of which also clearly shows the special type of collar patch seen in these group shots.)

He mentions that the date of introduction for these uniforms is uncertain, but that some evidence suggests 1935, with the uniforms being definitely in use by 1937. They were rather short-lived, though, and discontinued around 1938.

So we can tentatively date these pictures to the 1935 - 1938 period.

(The one definite thing we can tell from the photographs is that they could not have been tanken before 1934, as the men are wearing the 2nd pattern death's head badge introduced that year.)

[HPL2008]

(double post)

[415]

Thanks guys for all the info.

[derek]

415,
Thank you very much for posting the larger images. They are excellent. Here is the picture I mentioned from a Deutschland album showing SS members at a school.
In this case the instructor is the only one who wears a totenkopf on his cap. The cap was known as an "Uebungsmuetze". In fact this uniform was introduced in 1933 according to some RZM documents, or 1934 in others.
The instructors wore piping around the flap as your picture shows.
The rank insignia on the collars was specifically for the Reich and SA schools.
Note the patch in my shot shows an "A" for Ausbildung, (training).
Actually the unifroms and the full jawed skull were introduced in 1933 so your picture could be as early as that, although it's most likely 1934.
Derek