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    #1

    Dead SS-Scharführer

    I came across this photo in my archive last night and began to wonder about it. Although the SS-Scharführer is dead, hanging on barbed wire, I believe it is a pre-war photo. Possibly Grenzpolizei?
    I'd be interested in any comments about it.
    Max.
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    #2
    why cant this be a fake, ie, a soldier pretending to be dead or whatever in an actual pre war era? pre war horse play?

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      #3
      Originally posted by corporalSteiner View Post
      why cant this be a fake, ie, a soldier pretending to be dead or whatever in an actual pre war era? pre war horse play?
      Well, obviously the only way to know he's really dead is to examine him, but why would he play dead? And if that is the case, why is his hand caught up on the barbed wire? A rather painful prank I think. And why is his mouth gaping open? If it were just an exercise, why go to all these lengths? No, my guess is that he's really dead.
      Max.

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        #4
        He looks quit dead to me.

        Maybe a runaway ? And was shot.
        They mostly made photos or showed them dead bodies of runners that you'll end up that way if you run away.

        Anything particular in the background?

        Comment

          #5
          I do not think that he is dead. Hand gently rests on a wire, no traces of blood. I think that this theatricality... IMHO

          Comment

            #6
            This is starting to resemble the Monty Python ' Dead Parrot' sketch;

            Max: I'll tell you what's wrong with it, my lad. 'E's dead, that's what's wrong with it!
            Forum: No, no, 'e's uh,...he's resting.
            Max: Look, matey, I know a dead SS-Scharführer when I see one, and I'm looking at one right now.
            Forum: No no he's not dead, he's, he's restin'! (ETC, ETC, ETC!)

            I for one side with Max and think that he is also quite dead, and the body looks relatively 'fresh' at that. Unfortunately, without being able to get my Soco kit out and check for sure, we will probably not find out the real circumstances surrounding this picture. That is unless someone does know something about this pic. I for one would love to know more.

            Thank's Max, a fascinating photo!

            Graham

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              #7
              He s wearing a glove on the left hand while the right one is not wearing it...

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                #8
                Originally posted by Daniele C View Post
                He s wearing a glove on the left hand while the right one is not wearing it...
                It lies besides him. It is the thing you see in front of his face.

                Comment

                  #9
                  Yes but what i meant is he s not wearing it.

                  He was running wearing one glove and holding the other one in his hand perhaps?

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                    #10
                    I think that the one question that must be posed is ... 'if he's not dead, what the bloody hell is he doing entangled in barbed wire?' There are much easier ways to play dead.
                    And as for his "hand gently resting on the wire".....well, it looks to me as if his right index finger is caught on the wire and the rest of his hand has flopped below it.
                    And for all we know, there might be a pool of blood behind him.
                    Max.
                    Last edited by max history; 06-12-2008, 08:37 AM.

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                      #11
                      it isnt hard if you have a certain motivation to fake a stiff snap...i think this soldier is doing just that, dainty finger positions et alles...why? boredom? a snap confection designed to stop people jumping over wire...because its such an odd snap and inconclusive, i say its horse play.

                      Comment

                        #12
                        I say he is dead and I'll tell you why. The snow is not disturbed around the body. There is no snow on the body, so we know it didn't snow and cover up any disturbance. If he was posing, he would not have just dropped onto a barbed wire fence, that would be inviting a barb to the eye or something. No, if he was posing, he would have gotten down on his hands and knees, worked himself into the wite, then stretched out--and that movement would be visible in the snow right around him. In the many many KIA photos I have in my collection--those taken in Russian in the snow--the bodies are generally lying there with very little disruption to the snow around them. It is clear that they were killed and simply fell. In some cases, distrubance to the snow in a fresh KIA photo could be accounted for by the victim moving around in his last moments or spectators coming close to look at the body.

                        However, in this case, since the snow is undisturbed, I'd say that he is certianly dead, that he was killed outright, and that he fell dead into that barbed wire fence. But I may be wrong, it has happened once or twice before in my life.

                        Best,

                        Chris
                        Interested in candid/private Hitler, KIA, and Holocaust photos. Also any AH related memorabilia--silverware, linen, crystal, china...
                        All the best,
                        Chris

                        Comment

                          #13
                          Originally posted by corporalSteiner View Post
                          it isnt hard if you have a certain motivation to fake a stiff snap...i think this soldier is doing just that, dainty finger positions et alles...why? boredom? a snap confection designed to stop people jumping over wire...because its such an odd snap and inconclusive, i say its horse play.
                          If I was bored even then I'll never do that. I think his head is also lying on the barbwire. And he just don't ly into a position like when you're alive.

                          Comment

                            #14
                            Originally posted by EKman View Post
                            I say he is dead and I'll tell you why. The snow is not disturbed around the body. There is no snow on the body, so we know it didn't snow and cover up any disturbance. If he was posing, he would not have just dropped onto a barbed wire fence, that would be inviting a barb to the eye or something. No, if he was posing, he would have gotten down on his hands and knees, worked himself into the wite, then stretched out--and that movement would be visible in the snow right around him. In the many many KIA photos I have in my collection--those taken in Russian in the snow--the bodies are generally lying there with very little disruption to the snow around them. It is clear that they were killed and simply fell. In some cases, distrubance to the snow in a fresh KIA photo could be accounted for by the victim moving around in his last moments or spectators coming close to look at the body.

                            However, in this case, since the snow is undisturbed, I'd say that he is certianly dead, that he was killed outright, and that he fell dead into that barbed wire fence. But I may be wrong, it has happened once or twice before in my life.
                            Best,

                            Chris
                            Falling into the barbwire? Me only once

                            I'll tell you, I also did a fall into barbwire, I'll tell you.. YOU'LL NEVER DROP yourself into barbwire, to dangerous, I lost some Centimeters of flesh in my leg (I did a fall with a bike into it, stays the same).

                            As said with the snow, I'll follow you. Surely, when his head is also lying on the barbwire, that need guts, the sharpstings will puncture trough your skin.

                            Comment

                              #15
                              one thing i noticed, if he is pretending to be dead, he seems to have his hand gently left under his head to protect his face from the cold snow?
                              Ian

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