Selling doubles from a group

[W Petz]

I have no problems selling exact prints of the very same photo without any writing or annotations on the reverse. Yes it is unfortunate that groupings and albums get split up but the person selling has the right to sell their property as they seem fit...nothing you can do about it except purchase them if you feel so strongly about it.

What about splitting photo album groups?

It's happening under our own eyes as we speak.

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=290645
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=290652

I think it's a shame ...

[Wayne A]

I have always assumed that there are duplicates because people traded pictures within their unit/group. Like say, someone took a really nice group shot or a shot of something unique, then others would want a copy and he would have copies made. Especially because not everyone would have a camera.

I have seen, and also own, pictures of groups of guys looking over photos. They gave me the impression that they were looking them over to see who had what. Then they would get copies printed.

I have not read anywhere about this happening during the second world war, but from experience in the service in the late 60's and early 70's I know that not everyone, even then, had their own camera and when someone got a roll developed they would look them over with friends and get copies printed for those that wanted them. I can't see why this would not have happened back in the thirties and forties.

I also keep all my duplicates, that's what the original owner did and I feel it is my duty to keep it the way he left it.

[PzV]

duplicate photos

I personally have no problem trading or selling duplicate photos from a grouping after I have examined them and kept the best one in the grouping. We have a rather expensive hobby and you can't keep everything. In the case of very exclusive photos I prefer to use these in trade to attain objects for the collection as many collectors will not consider cash. I have a number of groups where photos had been duplicated and the photo exists in 4 or 5 copies or more (often with Knights Cross winners etc.). I often note that in the US there is a different view on "groups" and "named items" than here in Europe but I see no problem in disposing of those duplicate photos (for what reason do you need 5 or 6 copies of the same photo?).

[Dallas]

Well, we have WA sponsors that have a business in splitting foto albums if they don't sell together.

[W Petz]

Dallas,

I personally wouldn't split an album but those who are running a business do so for a reason. They own the albums so it's their business what they do with them regardless of how you or I feel about it.

Wayne....you assume that duplicates were traded off and then state you keep all your duplicates because that is the way the original owner would have left it??? Isn't that a contradiction in terms....how do you know what the original owner thought...he may have given away or traded off duplicates since he had that many extras.

Well, we have WA sponsors that have a business in splitting foto albums if they don't sell together.

[helmke]

It has been my experience in this hobby that those that are verbally so against the spliting up of groups are very often the first to ask a dealer or a fellow collector that sells something from his collection, to split up a grouping so that they can atleast financially afford to buy one item from a group.

The moral usually is:
- It is bad to split up a group with a small financial value but it is more then OK to split up an expensive group.

Remember that almost everything you see in this hobby was once part of a bigger group.
Personally I have seen plenty of document groups that were split up by the veteran himself or his family.

H

[Tim DC]

I am quite disappointed by these reactions. Yes, of course the owners can decide what to do with their albums or groupings. Unfortunately I do not have the funds to be the knight on the white horse saving all those groupings, but the least we can do is protest, no ?

If I read this last comment I'm almost turned into the bad guy for bringing this up. I can tell you Mr. H. that I have never ever split a grouping or album myself, nor did I ever insinuate a seller to do this for me.

Also, your comment on the veterans and their families makes little sense. They throw away their stuff or sell it separated because they have no sense of historical value. If so, they would just keep that part of family history. I was hoping fellow collectors would feel different about that and understand the importance of historical value, but appearently I am wrong. Yes, the dealers are in it for the money, but I was referring to our own e-stand and the WAF collecting community.

[helmke]

Tim, the people on this forum are private collectors that spend their money on militaria, not keepers of records for national archives.
Their is a difference.

H

[Tim DC]

But why do you collect photos and/or documents then? Am I wrong presuming that this section of the militaria hobby is mostly populated by people who don't just think a swastika is "cool", but want to preserve a piece of history in their own, limited way? Or am I just a naive, idealistic 21-year old fool?

[helmke]

Hi Tim,

You sure are no fool but like you write yourself indeed perhaps a bit naive.
And their is nothing wrong with being naive/idealistic in that way.

Nobody can accuse JYN of having no intrest in history or preserving it, he has written a good book about the battle of Crete.
I don't personally know JYN, but besides being an amateur historian he also seems to be a collector.
I'am a collector to and like JYN I have sold items from my collection in the past also like you Tim I was once naive/idealistic; but when you start to collect more expensive items in this hobby and you aren't a millionair like Sudek13 one needs to sell items from his collection to make new purchases for his collection.
If one isn't a millionair this is actually the only way to build up a collection with unique/intresting items.
Like I said there is a hugh difference between a private collection and a museum or archive collection.
A private collection lives, items are added and others removed (sold or traded).
And once one starts to sell items from his collection, specially if one sells more expensive items one comes across the question should I split up a group or not.
Tim it is wrong to state that all those that once have splited up a group are criminals or don't know what they are collecting or perhaps shouldn't collect at all.
I personally believe that a lot of documents and other militaria are better kept and looked after in private collections then in archives or museum storage rooms.
That those documents and items sometimes are split up amongst different collectors is perhaps a downside to this fact.
But Tim would this hobby be any better with millionair types like Sudek13 that have the financialpower to buy up everything?
Or that it was perhaps better that everything was kept in archives were normal working Joe's like I have no access to?

H

[PzV]

I personally think that you might be overdoing this subject and you must consider what we have. When a soldier had a number of prints made from a photo it was in order to distribute them to friends colleagues and relatives. These photos were very expensive for the common soldier and were done in hand work. Often these photos come in groupings and exist since either the soldier never distributed them as intended or was killed or badly wounded in action. For a soldier who was killed in action it is also not uncommon to find numerous prints of the same photo as well as 20 or 30 death notices to the same soldier. Why should should we keep these together and what historical benefit does it bring us if we do??? I personally cannot think of any. I was at the recent Pz Rgt 24 meeting two weeks ago in Nieder Moos and met with the unit photographer (inofficial). He had received this "task" since he had a better quality camera and was able to take better than average photos. For this reason you can view many of the 24th PD photo albums and find similar photos. He made numerous prints because his comrades ordered them. I challenge anyone in the forum to be offered a duplicate photo and turn it down if offered to them since it would destroy a "group". The other aspect is the question as to whether it is really necessary to keep the "basic training" albums with a large group, when only the later photos are really that historically interesting. I recently got a massive Sturmgeschutz grouping from one soldier but why must I keep his artillery basic training albums which are not really that interesting? In any event, I will continue to get rid of duplicate photos and do not have a guilty conscience for doing so.

[helmke]

Hi PzV,

You shouldn't have a guilty consience.
You collect like almost all photocollecters collect!
Indeed what should one do with all those training- & tourist photoalbums that sometimes are in a photoalbum group?
If you get them for free with the group it isn't a problem, but what if you have to pay for them also?
Even if you don't sell them, these unintresting photoalbums tend to end up in the loft anyway.
Also we have to be honest, not all pictures taken by (German) soldiers are of historical intrest.

H

[PzV]

Hello Helmke!
I think you have hit the nail on the head with that comment and are absolutely correct.

best regards

PzV

[Wayne A]

Wayne....you assume that duplicates were traded off and then state you keep all your duplicates because that is the way the original owner would have left it??? Isn't that a contradiction in terms....how do you know what the original owner thought...he may have given away or traded off duplicates since he had that many extras.

Of course it's a contradiction...one too many St. Pauli Girl's when I posted.