Patenurkunde

[Ron C.]

How common were these? Is there any information on how many were given during the Third Reich? Is there any information on the criteria for issue?

Thanks,
Ron

[PH1905]

Hello Ron,

it was very common, everybody who had more than six children, get this document.

Regards

Ralf

[Ron C.]

Hello Ron,

it was very common, everybody who had more than six children, get this document.

Regards

Ralf

Ralf,

I don't understand your answer. Fridolin is not a name I have heard before, so I am not aware if it is a female name......but assuming it is; she could not have had six children at the time of the award, as she was born in February 1943 and the certificate was awarded in March 1943. She was the ninth living child born to her parents, but she is the one Hitler is declaring to be his God-child. It is not an urkunde to the Mother's Cross.

Ron

[Ron C.]

I should add that I searched the forum and found 2 other posts of questions on Patenurkunde, both of which mentioned it being the ninth child. If anyone knows, was that one, or even the only one, of the criteria for issuance of a Patenurkunde. I also wonder how many "ninth children" there were to one family in the Third Reich. I would assume quite a few, but that is only an assumption. I also wonder how many of the certificates would have been destroyed for fear of the document being misunderstood by the occupying forces, and causing them to think these people were closely associated with Hitler. I collected for over 60 years, and only came across this one......of course the fact I only stumbled over one doesn't mean that there wasn't 20 million of them, just that I only found one.

Ron

[grobkörnig]

Ron,

Fridolin was the ninth living child of HIS parents, Phillip Sum and his wife Luise.

I believe that the criteria for a Ehrenpatenschaft of the Führer was: You were the 9th living child of your parents and all of your eight siblings would have to be alive at the date of your birth. I'm not sure, if parents had to apply for the certificate.

German parents can apply for a Ehrenpatenschaft of the German Bundespräsident for their 7th child even today.

Finally, I believe that, not at least due to the fact that there is very little information on the topic the internet, Third Reich Patenurkunden are pretty hard to find...

Regards
gk

[Ron C.]

Ron,

Fridolin was the ninth living child of HIS parents, Phillip Sum and his wife Luise.

I believe that the criteria for a Ehrenpatenschaft of the Führer was: You were the 9th living child of your parents and all of your eight siblings would have to be alive at the date of your birth. I'm not sure, if parents had to apply for the certificate.

German parents can apply for a Ehrenpatenschaft of the German Bundespräsident for their 7th child even today.

Finally, I believe that, not at least due to the fact that there is very little information on the topic the internet, Third Reich Patenurkunden are pretty hard to find...

Regards
gk

Thanks grobkörnig,

That helps some......at least I know more than I did before. I am pleased to know the gender of Fridolin now. I had never heard that name before. I guess the Patenurkunde was an out of the ordinary find for me. I got it early one morning at the Frankfurt fleamarket in the early to mid-70s off a table on which it was the only Third Reich item. Looked like the kind of stuff that was picked up on bulk trash day in some town....old kitchen ware and etc..

Thanks again,
Ron

[Larry deZeng]

FRIDOLIN

Just 3 hits in a data base of 22,236 names:

FATH, Fridolin. (DOB: 01.05.08). (R, DKG). 04.40 Hptm., Ia/Lufttransportführer 1. 09.41 Hptm., Staka 11./KG z.b.V. 1. 01.42 Hptm., appt Kdr. IV./KG z.b.V. 1 (to 15.01.43). 31.01.42 Hptm., awarded DKG, III./KG z.b.V. 1. 01.03.42 promo to Maj. (advanced from 01.04.42). 23.12.42 Maj., awarded Ritterkreuz, acting Kdr. IV./KG.z.b.V. 1. 12.43 Maj., appt Kdr. III./TG 1 (to 09.44). ). †17.03.87.
HERRMANN, Fridolin. 01.10.39 in I./Lg.Nachr.Rgt. 12, promo to Obstlt. 00.40 Obstlt., Kdt. Fl.H.Kdtr. E 7/I (to 13.07.42). 13.07.42 Obstlt., trf from Fl.H.Kdtr. 7/I (previously with Koflug Leeuwarden) to Koflug 8/VI. 19.11.43 Obstlt., appt Kdt. Fl.H.Kdtr. A 204/I. 01.04.44 appt Kdt. Fl.H.Kdtr. E 267/III.
SAUER, Fridolin. 12.02.43 Maj.(z.V.), trf from Wehrbezirkskdo. Wien IV to Flieger-Ers.Btl. XVII with TDY to Kdr. d.Heeresstreifendienst z.b.V. 2.

So it can be said that the name is exceedingly rare; statistically, that is.

--Larry

P.S. I thought I was the oldest guy on WAF, Ron, but you may have me beat!

[Ron C.]

[

P.S. I thought I was the oldest guy on WAF, Ron, but you may have me beat! [/QUOTE]

Larry,

Thanks for the information on the name....I knew I had never seen it before.

Maybe you are older than me. I started collecting over 60 years ago......but I was only 7 when I started......I am a bit over 68.

Ron

[Simon O.]

The most senior German officer with the name Fridolin that springs to my mind was General der Panzertruppe Fridolin von Senger und Etterlin, RK, EL and DKiG. Best known in the West as commander of the XIV Panzer Korps in Italy. His autobiography can also be found in English and is well worth a read.

[Larry deZeng]

[
P.S. I thought I was the oldest guy on WAF, Ron, but you may have me beat!

Larry,
Thanks for the information on the name....I knew I had never seen it before.
Maybe you are older than me. I started collecting over 60 years ago......but I was only 7 when I started......I am a bit over 68.
Ron[/QUOTE]

Ah ha! Got you by about 16 months. But I'm glad to have some close company here, Ron. My interest in this field began at age 7½ in November 1945 when some returning vets who were family friends gave me nearly a footlocker full of militaria items brought back from Europe. Unfortunately, I wrecked most of it while playing soldier with my neighborhood pals, as a young boy might be expected to do. Only a few items remain.

So we started at the same age, and perhaps under the same circumstances.
--Larry

[PH1905]

Hello Larry,

http://www.rund-ums-baby.de/vornamen...?name=Fridolin

Regards

Ralf

[Ron C.]

Larry,
Thanks for the information on the name....I knew I had never seen it before.
Maybe you are older than me. I started collecting over 60 years ago......but I was only 7 when I started......I am a bit over 68.
Ron

Ah ha! Got you by about 16 months. But I'm glad to have some close company here, Ron. My interest in this field began at age 7½ in November 1945 when some returning vets who were family friends gave me nearly a footlocker full of militaria items brought back from Europe. Unfortunately, I wrecked most of it while playing soldier with my neighborhood pals, as a young boy might be expected to do. Only a few items remain.

So we started at the same age, and perhaps under the same circumstances.
--Larry[/QUOTE]

Larry,

Right on the button.............my Dad was a Seabee in the Pacific, but many of his friends were in Europe, and they gave me things for my start....most of which likely got more wear during our neighborhood wars than in the real one. Most got lost over the years; however, I still have the first thing I got. It is a very long "street" or "event banner". I have some of the other first things as well, but they are co-mingled and I can't really remember which are which.

Ron

P.S.,
Ralf,

Thanks for the information on the name........it is very interesting.

Ron

[Larry deZeng]

Hello Larry,
http://www.rund-ums-baby.de/vornamen...?name=Fridolin
Regards
Ralf

Bedeutung: "kleiner Friedrich"

Thanks, Ralf!

--Larry

[Larry deZeng]

Right on the button.............my Dad was a Seabee in the Pacific, but many of his friends were in Europe, and they gave me things for my start....most of which likely got more wear during our neighborhood wars than in the real one. Most got lost over the years; however, I still have the first thing I got. It is a very long "street" or "event banner". I have some of the other first things as well, but they are co-mingled and I can't really remember which are which.
Ron

Fascinating, Ron! It brings back fond memories. We must have been two peas out of the pod as kids.

--Larry