Death Card Translation

[StuGIII]

Hi would someone on the forum mind translating the front and back of this card for me? Also, I found it odd that this Gefreiter was armed with a pistol. I'd have thought he'd have to be of a higher rank to be so equipped. Any idea what type of pistol it was based on the holster, a Luger or P-38?

John

[StuGIII]

Other side of Death Card

Here's the other side of Josef's death card.

[Hank C.]

Hi StuGIII,
I'm not trying to be rude here, but seeing as the front is very readable, have you even attempted one of the online translation services, before asking here?

In a nutshell, he held the the EK2 and Infantry Assault badge, died 27 Feb 1942 in Russia, and was a baker's son.

On the bottom is a grieving poem...the back, though hard to read at this size, is another quote or poem.

best
Hank

[StuGIII]

Death Card

Hi Hank,

No I have not tried one of the online translation services as I'm not familiar with them. Besides I thought some of the forum members might find this card interesting due to such a low ranking soldier being shown wearing a pistol. Thanks for the nutshell translation.

Regards,
John

[Gerdan]

Hi John:

may be it is helpful to know that this young guy came from Inding a very small

village in a town in Austria - today incorporated in the town of Diersbach

(Oberoesterreich). Diersbach today has about 1600 inhabitants.


Gerdan

[StuGIII]

Josef

Hi Gerdan,

Thanks for the information on his hometown. What does Oberoesterreich mean? Is that the state that Diersbach is in today? Any thoughts on why a Gefreiter would be armed with a pistol? In the US Army he'd have been a private first class and they weren't normally armed with a pistol, unless they were military police or something like that I suppose.

Regards,
John

[HPL2008]

Oberösterreich means Upper Austria; this is indeed an Austrian Bundesland (= equivalent to an American State). (Back then, of course, Austria was not a sovereign nation, but part of the German Reich.)

One small correction to Hank Cummings' nutshell translation: This man was not the son of baker, but of a farmer.
Allow me to explain: "Baker's" son would be "Bäckerssohn" in German, but what the death card says is "Bäckerbauersohn", or roughly "Son of the Bäcker-Farmer", meaning the farmer working the Bäcker-Farm. Especially in Bavaria and Austria, old farms are commonly referred to by their traditional Hofnamen (= farm names), which refer, for example, to the farms' original founders.
In casual conversation, the people from this soldier's home town would have commonly referred to his father not as "Bauer Schönböck") (= "Farmer Schönböck", but as the "Bäcker-Bauer". (= "Bäcker-Farmer")

[StuGIII]

Josef

Hi,


Thanks for the help with the translation.So Josef's father worked on a farm that was owned at one time by the Backer family. Would that family have still owned it at the time Josef's father worked the farm or do you think the father actually owned the farm, but since the Backer's originally owned it, it was still called by their name rather than calling it the Schoenbeck farm? I ask because over here we had a concept called tenant farmers. The farm would be owned by one family, but another family actually worked the land.

[Hank C.]

Sorry 'bout the misinformation, didn't see that.

best
Hank

[Bootmanager]

sterbebild

Hello not 100 %
+-
80-90 %
you soldier
come from

45 Inf. Division
formed in Linz
Generalleutnant Fritz Kühlwein ( 1942)
15%
Inf. Reg. 130 - 133 - 135

Regards
Hans

[StuGIII]

Josef's Sterbebild

Hello Hans,

Wow I never thought I'd be able to find out what Division and possibly what regiment Josef served with. Thank you for attempting to find that out for me. What sources did you look up this information in? Thank you so much for your help in this matter.

[Hank C.]

Hi StuGIII,
I'm guessing he's figuring the area the soldier was from, coupled with the date & area where he was killed. You could kinda deduce what units would be appropriate; also possibly some clue by his uniform.

best,
Hank

[grobkörnig]

Oberösterreich means Upper Austria; this is indeed an Austrian Bundesland (= equivalent to an American State). (Back then, of course, Austria was not a sovereign nation, but part of the German Reich.)

One small correction to Hank Cummings' nutshell translation: This man was not the son of baker, but of a farmer.
Allow me to explain: "Baker's" son would be "Bäckerssohn" in German, but what the death card says is "Bäckerbauersohn", or roughly "Son of the Bäcker-Farmer", meaning the farmer working the Bäcker-Farm. Especially in Bavaria and Austria, old farms are commonly referred to by their traditional Hofnamen (= farm names), which refer, for example, to the farms' original founders.
In casual conversation, the people from this soldier's home town would have commonly referred to his father not as "Bauer Schönböck") (= "Farmer Schönböck", but as the "Bäcker-Bauer". (= "Bäcker-Farmer")

I'd like to add that there are a couple of family names that developed from such farm names; Schneiderbauer, Huberbauer, the most famous (at least among football fans): Beckenbauer (which is in fact an older form of Bäckerbauer), even Müllerbauer and Schmidbauer... Just wanted to mention that

Regards
gk

[HPL2008]

So Josef's father worked on a farm that was owned at one time by the Backer family. Would that family have still owned it at the time Josef's father worked the farm or do you think the father actually owned the farm, but since the Backer's originally owned it, it was still called by their name rather than calling it the Schoenbeck farm?

Quite probably the latter. These farm names often date back several hundred years, sometimes all the way to before the Thirty-Year-War. Often the precise origin of such a name (many times, but not in all cases the founder's name) or any information about the farm's founders is lost in time.
(Of course, we cannot be totally sure - It would be just as possible that Schönböck senior married the daughter of the Bäcker family and eventually took over the farm from his father-in-law.)

I ask because over here we had a concept called tenant farmers. The farm would be owned by one family, but another family actually worked the land.

A somewhat similiar German equivalent to this would be Pacht, the lending of agricultural land, forest or even a complete farm from the owner for an indefinite or fixed time.

I'd like to add that there are a couple of family names that developed from such farm names; Schneiderbauer, Huberbauer, the most famous (at least among football fans): Beckenbauer (which is in fact an older form of Bäckerbauer), even Müllerbauer and Schmidbauer... Just wanted to mention that

Good point. Speaking of Bäckerbauer; just as an illustration: Here, from a site listing Hofnamen for just the area northwest of Munich, are those starting with "B", including more than 20 Bäckers and quite a few additional variations on that name:

http://www.genealogie-kiening.de/H/BHOFNAME.HTM

[Bootmanager]

Sterbebild

What sources did you look up this information in?
.................................................. .................
I collecting many years army postal service of dead pictures etc..

the books became also ever more.......

all in german , sorry


Regards

hans

( Michel - Kanapin - Divisions book`s and more)
you want a death card Sturmgeschütz ?