What do you see in this Luftwaffe photo?

[jmark]

Hi all,

I bought this photo for a particular reason and I'd like your diagnosis of it. What do you see in it? Are there any clues to determine what branch of the Luftwaffe they belong to (ground crew, pilots, LWFD, Fallschirmjäger, etc.) and roughly when the photo was taken. The latter may seem quite difficult but perhaps certain pieces of uniform were only introduced at certain times. For example, the man third from right seems to be wearing felt boots. IIRC, these were only introduced late in 1942 (please correct me if I'm wrong). What about the Luftwaffe fur cap on the pipe-smoking chap fifth from left? Finally, the Unteroffizer (4th from left) is wearing unusual boots. Are these pilots' boots?

I do have an additional clue as to when and where the photo was taken (a small caption on the back) but I would like proof from the photo itself to confirm the caption. (The caption appears to have been written with a biro... that's not unusual because many veterans annotated their photos decades after the war... however, the caption is what prompted me to pay good money for the photo). I'll reveal the caption later!

Any input welcome!
Jason

[jmark]

I suppose I should post the photo...

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[jmark]

A close-up...

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[jmark]

... and another.

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[R MICHAEL]

Hmmm, Well the "unusual" boots are fleiger boots but the collar tabs that are visible are not yellow. I do have some photos of non flight crew wearing flight boots so that is okay to see here. I would say flak crew around one of the flugplatz in the kessel. Say Oct. Nov. 42.

Just a guess though.

[jmark]

I would say flak crew around one of the flugplatz in the kessel. Say Oct. Nov. 42.

And what makes you think it was taken in "der Kessel"?

[Fallschirmjaeger]

Flak of LWFD?

Yea they maybe a flak unit of LWFD troops,but dont see any items to link them to the fallschirmjäger,and dont think there from the herman goring units.Or as these boots are from pilots etc..right then maybe pilots and there groundcrew at there base.

[Simon O.]

Ground crew, Flak, nachrichten, something like that. At any rate their in a static location, they've come out of a bunker\building\accommodation or the like. One of them is wearing black overalls indicating a mechanic of sorts. The flying boots don't indicate flying personnel necessarily, just that they got their hands on some good warm kit.

[R MICHAEL]

Well Jason knowing your interest and the comment about the price and the inscription on reverse, of which I am waiting with baited breath lol, leads me to that educated guess.
Also the setting in winter, though with the lighter kit. It is in either the early or late winter. Also the bunker, which appears to be consripted, and the flak crew with some flight gear indicates an airfiled. So with all this guessing it would have to be either pitomnik or gumrak flugplatz in the early winter because of the still confident looks in the faces.

So Jason how far off the mark am I? I won't mind if I blew it all together.
Cheers, Mike

And what makes you think it was taken in "der Kessel"?

[F L Clemens]

It's a nice group photo. You have to give credit to the photographer for taking a good picture on those conditions! Imagine - all manual settings on the camera, freezing weather, crappy conditons for keeping your camera clean and functioning, etc. At least the snow helped even out the lighting for their faces, but the contrast of the dark uniforms was something to deal with in development.

Taking pictures then was a far cry from today!

[jmark]

Thanks for the replies.

I was hoping there'd be some clues in the photo as to when the photo was taken. I'm certain some pieces of uniform shown in the photo did not exist until 1942, but I'm no expert, so I won't push this point.

As you guessed Mike, I think it's a photo taken in Stalingrad after the encirclement. And as someone who singlemindedly collects Stalingrad photos, I can tell you that such things are rare. It'll take a few posts for me to explain my thinking, so please stick with me.

First up is the caption on the back. It's written with a biro, which means it's not contemporary with the photo. An increasingly common trend that I've noticed is that more and more unscrupulous sellers are "sexing up" otherwise ordinary photos with extraordinary captions. I've passed up quite a few photos reputing to show Stalingrad in winter. This photo was different, and I'll explain why.

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[jmark]

The reason why I think the biro caption was added by a veteran long after the war - and not by a dodgy seller - is the slightly shaky hand and the choice of location. Why choose "Karpowka"? Why not opt for better known sites like Gumrak or Pitomnik? You can see on the map below where Karpovka was situated (within my quickly drawn outline of the Kessel's outer edge!) and how far it was from the airfields of Gumrak and Pitomnik.

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[jmark]

In the photo itself, you can see that the building behind the Luftwaffe group has some sort of rush or reed thatching as a roof covering. Karpovka lies in the Karpovka river valley and on my recent visit there (in August this year) I saw masses of reeds growing alongside the river. All other photos I've seen of Stalingrad's villages and workers settlements show the huts with wooden or corrugated tin roofs. However, many of the houses in Karpovka used the local reeds to keep the rain off. Fortunately, I have a known photo of Karpovka in my collection and these thatched roofs can be seen.

I know my logic is tortuous but it's helped confirm in my own mind that the photo was indeed taken in Karpovka, and therefore in the Stalingrad Kessel. By the way, the first snows did not come until mid-November, and heavy falls did not set in until later in the month. I therefore believe the photo to be taken in late-November or early December 1942.

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[jmark]

Finally, the photo bore a resemblance to another one in my collection (attached below: it shows the staff of Pz.Pi.Btl.50 on 7 January 1943... deep in the Stalingrad crisis!). I must admit that I did not know this new photo was Luftwaffe when I bid on it because the photo was too lo-res, but I could see felt boots and fur caps, just like the photo below. The two photos have the same feel.

That is my evidence. I rest my case!

Thanks for reading
Jason

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[Fallschirmjaeger]

How many survived after the picture?

On the first picture of the group,i wonder how many survived the battle of stalingrad then.And then after the battle,the long march as a prisoner,where we all know many died and also in the camps for years too.So maybe some survived or they all died in the battle or marches to the camps and in the camps.