document sizes

[Mark S.]

this ought to prove to be an interesting forum! How about a few basics for us not in the know. Can someone explain these different paper sizes to me? How big is A4 etc? And what is DIN?

[Steve T]

Hi there,

I think all your paper size and format history questions, including A4 and the DIN format are answered here:

Paper History Web Page

Steve

[ 22 May 2001: Message edited by: 007 ]

[James Clark]

Just as a quick reference, "Forman's Guide to Third Reich Documents...(etc)" gives the following approximations:

DIN A6 105mm x 150mm
DIN A5 150mm x 210mm
DIN A4 210mm x 298mm
DIN A3 298mm x 420mm

DIN is an abbreviation for Deutsche Industrienorm (German Industry Standard - yes the German's are responsible for that too!) which is now the European standard.

Very pleased to see this aspect of the forum getting underway!

Regards,

James

[Paul Massucci]

Steve,
thanks for posting that link, lots of interesting info there, I've gotten used to using the metric system for badges etc, but paper going to be a new experience

[Eric Queen]

Steve and James,

Thanks for fielding Marks question. A lot of interesting ISO /DIN information at that web site Steve. Thanks to everyone for your interest in this topic and your support of the forum.

Eric Queen

[reichpapers]

I havent found an award document yet that fit into those size catagories. The always seem to be off by afew millimeters.

[Steve T]

Just out of interest I just measured some documents:

KVKII 149.5 x 210mm (A5 148x210)
1st Oct38 Medal 210 x 296.5mm (A4 210x297)

Both above in spec but the Iron Cross below:
Iron Cross II 140 x 200mm No DIN Match?

Hmm. what spec is the Iron Cross supposed to be?

Spec in () - The allowed tolerances are ±1.5 mm for dimensions up to 150 mm, ±2 mm for dimensions above 150 mm up to 600 mm, and ±3 mm for dimensions above 600 mm. Some national equivalents of ISO 216 specify tighter tolerances, for instance DIN 476 requires ±1 mm, ±1.5 mm, and ±2 mm respectively for the same ranges of dimensions.

Steve

[reichpapers]

My Sturmabzeichen: 148 x 210
My KVKMS2 140 x 210

These are the only two I own right now due to previous collection purges, but I have measured many at odd sizes.

[James Clark]

Just to stress that the measurements in the list I posted were given as being APPROXIMATE.

A quick visual check of some of my own docs suggest some variation, especially amongst the A5 docs. If the difference is more than a few millimeters, I suppose one would have to consider the possibility that they may have been trimmed at some point - perhaps to fit a frame or tidy up a ragged edge. I remember a bloke who used to cut the corners off all his notebooks because he said it stopped them going dog-eared!

[Steve T]

James,

Do I know you? I cut the corners off all my award documents and notebooks to stop them going dog eared.


Steve

[Eric Queen]

There is no doubt that these guys would often cut down or trim their documents in order that they would fit into a frame, binder, folder, whatever. Of my documents for the paratrooper badge none are the same size. Only one is the original DINA4 size. The others have all been slightly trimed to varying degrees.

Eric Queen

[reichpapers]

Just because that was the industry standard doesn't mean they weren't trimming them hastily or incorrectly out of the Sonderdruck.

[Steve T]

Yes, I'm 100% sure my EKII is real and it's nowhere near the spec.

Steve

[reichpapers]

I didn't say it was fake. I'm just saying that they could have trimmed them to various sizes at the print shop (Sonderdruck). They may have bought standard sizes, but cut them down to according to their needs. Or had a lax policy when it came to trimming. The article about Industry Standard document sizes related to the sizes available, not what the award document printers distributed them as.

[Steve T]

Reichpapers..

No worries, I wasn't responding to your post, sorry for the confusion with my one-liner. I was more agreeing with what Eric said below about the trimming down of documents.

Ref:"There is no doubt that these guys would often cut down or trim their documents in order that they would fit into a frame, binder, folder, whatever. Of my documents for the paratrooper badge none are the same size"

Regards,
Steve