Military Units on Documents

[Brian R]

I'm very pleased about the launch of this forum. Document collecting is very fascinating. I have quite a few questions.

What's the scoop on understanding the unit a soldier was in when he won an award? How come they are listed on different levels?

1.Kp.Pionierbatallion 134
Company-Batallion

5./Inf. Regt. 424
Batallion-Regiment

Some soldier's units are even listed on the division level:

5.Luftw.F.Div

What are the various rules in interpreting the unit a soldier belonged according to what is listed on his award document(s)?

[Eric Queen]

Brian,

Not quite sure I understood the question, but what you have listed is the 1st Company of Pionier Regiment 134 ( 1./Pi.Rgt.134 ), the 5th company ( not Batl.) of Infanterie Regiment 424 ( 5./IR 424 )and the 5th Lw.Field Div.. As a general rule of nomenclature companies and regiments were indicated with a standard number and batallions were indicated with roman numerals.

2./FJR1 ( 2nd company of Fsch.Jg.Rgt.1, which belonged to the 1st Batallion )

II./FJR1 ( 2nd batallion of Fsch.Jg.Rgt.1, which was the 5th, 6th, 7th and 8th companies)

Hope this helps,

Eric Queen

[Rick Research]

Eric--part of the problem may be confusion being caused by reference books like the Nafziger "German Order of Battle" series which consistently incorrectly use Arabic company numbers instead of correct Roman numerals for battalions, as you've stated.

Brian's question may be: why are different AWARDS bestowed on different levels? An assault badge, for instance, was issued within the regiment, whereas normal WW2 practice bestowed Iron Crosses at divisional level (unlike WWI, when these were made as low as battalion level). Wound badges were usually issued at the recovery hospital, but sometimes not until the soldier had returned to his troop unit. (I've had groups with TWO Wound Badge documents for the same wound--having failed to send it on punctually from the hospital, the soldier's battalion CO made him out one, then the hospital document must have arrived in the Feldpost).

So a soldier with anIron Cross 2nd Class, Assault Badge, and Wound Badge all earned in the same calendar month would have had documents issued at three different places. Is that what you were getting at, Brian? Rick

[ 24 May 2001: Message edited by: Rick Lundstrom ]

[Chris Boonzaier]

Rick is right as far as the diffeerent levels go, although I take it as a rule of thumb that the EK2 is awarded at Divisional level, and the EK1 at corps level.

I have a side collection of WW1 EK docs, around 130 pieces, and there it is all over the board, anyone and his dog seemed to be signing the documents and it led to a super inflation of awards, really cheapening it as a medal.

By the time WW2 came around the controls were stricter.

It seems that when it came to deciding who should "win" an award the descision went to a higher level. When it came to adding up the points and giving out an assault badge, anyone with 3 fingers was qualified to work out if a guy would get it or not.

[CSP]

Brian:
Chris, etc are correct. Just like in the US military, certain command levels are the approval authority for certain levels of awards. The Germans were essentially the same and regulation (Heers- Verordungs-Blatt for the Army, for example) would specify the format and signature levels required to grant the award. Again, like in the US Army, the Purple Heart can be approved by the attending surgeom, who is able to determine if an wound occurred as a result of enemy action. Likewise, German doctors could award a wound badge, but so could adjutants, and commanders. When you get to the EK series, things tighten up significantly, but acting commanders (on a document it would read for example "Bataillon Fuhrer" instead of "Bataillon Kommandur" (sorry for the lousy spelling) and could be a significantly lower rank. In these cases the real commander may have been on leave, in hospital, etc.
I suggest Emillie Caldwell Stewart's book (OOP but can be obtained) as a good source for she genrally explains the signature level required).
Scott

[Brian R]

Thanks for the replies. I had a very difficult time trying to put my question into words. Now I understand better that different awards could be autorized and awarded on different levels. The awarding of an EK hads stricter paramameters and had to be autorized by someone on a higher level than that of the awarding of an IAB for example.

So how does one figure out the division a soldier was in when the unit listed on his award citation is 5./Inf. Regt. 424? How do I know that 424 Infantry Regiment was part of 126 Infantry Division?

Thanks again for taking the time to answer my ridiculously novice questions.

B

[Rick Research]

Brian--uh oh--now you're sliding over the edge into the bottomless pit of Orders of Battle, Rank Lists, award holder rolls, Generals' biographies ....

or you can always post in here and SOMEBODY will know! Rick (who only has Third Reich sources to carry over Imperial references ... )

[Brian R]

Does anyone know where to find Emilie Caldwell Stewart's book?

and

Any opinions on "GERMAN THIRD REICH ERA DOCUMENTS VOLUMES I & II" by Jeffrey F. Young & Daniel W. Meinz?

I like Forman's books but I'd love to find a reference that's a little heavier on text than pictures.

[Bradd]

Brian

I believe Stewarts book on Documents is out of print now. I picked my copy used on Bill Shea's site. I found it helpful. You may want to e-mail her (She has her own site) and see if she has any copies laying around.

I have volume ii of the Young book (The one dealing with military passes). This mostly contains info on passes (Soldbuchs, Wehrpasses ect). Hardly any info on award documents. However, I found the book very useful in regards to Soldbuch info. Although the pictures are sometimes hard to read.

Hope this helps a little.

Brad