only a dead german...

[Ludwig]

For Werner Geier

"hi ludwig,
didnt quite understand what you mean. which post are you refering to?
cheers, werner"

Why post this as a private message?

The post is what I wrote above.
Where do I mention Gentlemen?
You more or less insult me with your reproving comments. I just told you my experience of my meetings with some veterans. And I withhold what I wrote.
Of course I know it was not a gentlemen´s ****ing war. Why should it be? It´s a soldier´s ****ing duty to kill!

[werner geier]

dear ludwig,
i posted my reply as pm, cause a) i hoped to settle offline what seemed to become an argument, with countless pros/cons postings not contributing to the threads orig. content and b) i really hadnt understood what had upset you in the first place. was it because i had written "your " instead of "their" opinion?
if i should have insulted you, i am sorry. i never had the intention to do so. i also never wanted to question the authenticity of your vet-accounts. as i had started this thread, i thought it would be okay to comment on "rememberance" in general.
you said, you talked to veterans and that they never spoke “disparaging” about the enemy. i then used the “gentleman´s war” metaphor for it, as it seemed to be the conclusion of your posting.
indeed, that´s the same experience i, as an austrian growing up amongst veterans, have had in 25 years of research. talking to countless soldiers i used to hear the “noble fight” story again and again (also from people who are anything else than diehard nazis).
it took me a long time to understand i was encountering a psychological phenomena rather then the “whole” truth. self-protection through selective memory?
when i was 15 i found out that a close friend of our family, a nice and friendly old man, had been a camp doctor in mauthausen. he always had talked about the war as it had been a holiday.
from then on i was obsessivly hooked, wanted to get as close as possible to "the truth" behind my own habitat. i knew, in order to achieve this, i had to view/review from a somewhat neutral position, overcome the petrified left/rightwing debates, that still destabilize democracy in my home country, dig through all possible sources.
even if it may sound daft, i chose the very basics of humanitarianism as tools to craft my opinions with. not more, not less.
imho it was in fact the unparalelled brutality of warfare encountered in russia (as well as the post 45-experience, the complete pulverisation and criminalization of the ideology that had fuelled this enterprise), that made german vets to shut down their “heart-discs”, only to talk in encoded language.
to put it modestly, what ns-doctrins unleashed on russia was more than the “standard duty of killing”.
it wasnt gallant rommel vs. monty, it wasnt the wehrmacht´s business anymore, the rules were set by some crazed blood and soil warriors.
to use the same example as in my first posting: deliberately starving 1.4 million p.o.w.´s to death in only 3 months after the start of barbarossa, what is this?
noble? civilised? not “disparaging”?
for sure it was an open invitation for russian retaliation.
just my two cents.

fallen russian soldiers. pic-caption “a bridge through the mud“

<img src="http://imagehost.villagephotos.com/photos/2003-4/75468/JYTDBWBZMB-32215-untitled 1.jpg" width=700 height=445>

[Todd Gylsen]

Here is a couple images from a series I have of a fallen Leutnant prior to buriel and a photo of his grave. The writing on the back says our dead Leutnant Heinrich 1941.

[Todd Gylsen]

His grave

[Todd Gylsen]

A photo of a soldier who never made it out of his armored vehicle.

[Gregorio Torres]

This is a info related with this topic but refered to WWI.
One week ago I got in a small shop in Spain a very interesting book about this topic. It is a propaganda publication made in UK in 1934 and show to the english people the worst face of the war. Its title is "Covenant with death" and try to explain to the british folk that they don´t have to solve problems out of their frontiers. So, it is a non-intervention propaganda.
All the book is composed by big size images from War World I, the main part showing deads in the more incredible situations. It so impressive than the publisher censured a few pages putting a sticker. A lot of this photograph show dead german soldiers.
Certainly the war is the more dreadful thing in our History.

[Brian C.]

Here are two Panzer crewmen from http://www.panzerworld.net/

[Brian C.]

second one

[paddywhack]

i got that book of off are very own estand! brillaint book but quiet depressing and destrubing after going through it! the picture of the dead german in the trench with his arms behind his back looking like hes relaxing and a big smile on his face is very disturbing and to be honest shows what war is realy like!

[Jean-Loup]

Could you show us this photo Paddywhack? I have never seen a smiling dead yet.
JL

[paddywhack]

id be happy to if someone posts the picture for me!
cheers!

[Tyler Ramsey]

Pics for Patrick

WOW! I wonder what this guy was thinking when he died?

[Tyler Ramsey]

A closer look....

[paddywhack]

thanks tyler for posting the pics for me!
the title of the picture is "what dreams may come",i find it very very creepy! and id recommend any one who comes across this book to get it as its very good!
thanks again tyler!

[Akira Takiguchi]

My friend Werner started this thread to show that soldiers did photograph bodies of <b>friendly</b> forces, albeit rather rarely. Photograph of dead enemy soldiers are common on both sides, some samples have been shown here too.

In my opinion photographs of civilian deads are as rare to find. Hanged Partisanen are rather common. Also, german (and other) civilians tortured and killed by Soviets are widely distributed as they were used for propaganda purposes.

But other than these cases, bodies of civilian are hard to find in albums.

Here is one such example, taken in September 1939 in Poland. Disintegrated body of a "smiling" boy and his mother. Even the toughest soldier must have had something to feel in his mind...