OK, I give...

[max history]

Just because 2-3 people think item "a" is worth "x", that means that is the "fair market value"? Come on!

You actually missquote me, but how do you suppose market values on this type of thing are arrived at? If 2-3 people are willing to pay a certain amount of money for something, then that is its value to them. If this happens often enough, then sellers see it happening and price their similar goods accordingly. Hence trends dictate values.
I'll repeat what I said originally.....something is only worth what a person is willing to pay for it at the time. If that is more, or less, what you are willing to pay, then they place a different value on it than you. It's all relative.
Max.

[Tim DC]

Why would anyone pay twice the value of an item for anything Tim?

Hi Fran,

Adrian has already given his own example, but I'll add mine.

Perhaps it's more difficult for someone out of Europe to understand, but often local history has a lot to do with it. If you would encounter a German album of someone who actually occupied or fought in the village you grew up in, it's getting personal and you just bid twice the "value" it is worth. That has nothing to do with "good things come to those who wait", it's all about "I've GOT to have it" cause you know you won't get a chance like that every year.

And unfortunately I'm not the only one who thinks that way, as I had to pay top cash for the one or two albums I've found related to my village.

The importance is less for Eastern Front albums, but if you have a good look on eBay you will notice that local history is an important motivation to bid in about all the photos and albums concerning localized places on the Western Front !

[peter u]

Hello,

What is the value of militaria items?

A difficult question, if I a really want it I w'll gladly pay way more than the market value. I have items in my collection that I payed way to much for but I'am still happy has a little child to have them in my collection it gives me the same "trill" as finding a bargain.
It is also a fact that I rather pay to much for a good and orignal item than a bargain price for something which is always going to be a doubtful item, and in the end with the years going by its market value will catch up with the price I payed for it in the past if I want to sell or trade it on.

And I agree with Tim, I'am European collector also and items with local history are way more emotional important for me than other good militaria item such as for example eastern front , Africa/Italy theater or badges , medals and helmets with no local-history attached. I have to add that I stoped collecting ww2 German militaria items with no local-history because they where getting way to expencive for me and now it is only local history for me.

Collectors are emotional people who can pay a fortune for what other people would throuw in the dust-bin!

greetings Peter

[fknorr]

Without any more BS like Gary T wants to spew over long past arguements, I think everyone agrees that the album is overpriced...some of us even believe that the new owner paid double what it was worth in today's market.

It all boils down I guess to those who go ape-sh!t over this stuff and will pay whatever amount to have it as opposed to us (few in this thread it seems) that will not pay outrageous amounts for these items.

I lost another album that same day to the same division:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll...7266&rd=1&rd=1

You aren't hearing me jump up and down about this one because I again put in my bid of what I thought was a fair price (actually a little lower than I had wanted, that whole eu - dollar conversion still messes me up) and lost it...it going for a fair price.

No one here loves the "history" of these items more than myself, that's why my photo/document collection is growing as opposed to other aspects. I love to see the actual men and the actual dates that these men went through what they went through. I have had the badges, etc and for me now, unless there is a face to go along with it, it takes a bit more to get the juices flowing for me.

I am not a nut though, I know fair market value...not what a couple nuts might pay on ebay to "have" something. The "history" of these pieces may mean more to some but I do not think those in Europe differ from us here in the USA Our grandfathers walked the same ground, shed the same blood there as you native's grandparents. And the truth be told, the generation of US citizens that fought there had very strong ties to those same European villages Tim was speaking of because we are a nation of immigrants...most so European then.

[peter u]

Hello fknorr.

I understand your point exactly, and ofcourse Americans have scence about European history!
Like I said before I'am also not able to buy everthing I want, like I could 10 years ago. That is the power of the internet becoming more and more popular, this is open market business: how more people want an item and the more scarce it becomes the more its going to cost.
And with the dollar/euro difference the discusion is now turned around, it seems to me more and more Americans are complaning about prices than Europeance started to do a few years ago blaming Americans for crazy prices.

Now I'am just intersted in my own local history and if I want a piece you all w'll beter have deep pockets because I'am still willing to pay top money for local related items I became more selectif in my purchases. Just my luck if there are for example photo's on ebay of my region for sale I can bid against the Sudek cooperation, which I refuse to do they can buy what ever the want I'am not longer intrested, I gave up years ago and changed my collection intrest and I'am still a happy boy with my toy's!

[Gary T]

Without any more BS like Gary T wants to spew over long past arguements, I think everyone agrees that the album is overpriced...some of us even believe that the new owner paid double what it was worth in today's market.

It all boils down I guess to those who go ape-sh!t over this stuff and will pay whatever amount to have it as opposed to us (few in this thread it seems) that will not pay outrageous amounts for these items.

Sorry, what BS is this? Who mentioned past arguments?

The fact is someone obviously wanted it more than you. Why is that so hard for you to to deal with?

I think you wanted everyone to jump in here and make you feel better by saying "Yeah, what a moron. Fancy paying that amount...". There are hundred and one reasons why he wanted to pay this amount. As already mentioned there were two other people who bid more than you.

If this guy is a serious collector for items to this division then perhaps you should pick another unit? Or reconsider how much you really want these items.

I'll send the guy an e-mail and see if he's interested in the several 14 ID document groups I've got to sell.

[peter u]

Well said Gary, the value of a piece is what the highest bidder pay's for it a simple rule! And I also changed my collection area, sold of the mayority of it to fund my new intrest.

[max history]

I think everyone agrees that the album is overpriced...some of us even believe that the new owner paid double what it was worth in today's market.

I don't wish to get involved in any previous disagreements, but I have to take issue with this statement.
How can this album be overpriced if more than one person was willing and happy to pay the price? (The underbidder was also willing to pay a slight amount under it.) The truth of the matter is that at least two people were willing to pay approximately double what you think it's worth.
With every new collector, there is the risk that they are willing to pay more than your estimate of something's value and with that is the likelihood that the price trend will go up. Conversely, if certain things become less collectable, the price trend can also go down. The situation with what we consider currently to be a fair price is extremely fluid and as collectors we must accept that there will always be somebody who comes along and is willing to pay more. There is no such thing in the collecting world as a "current market value," just a guide as to the amount that people have recently been paying for similar items.
Max.

[fknorr]

I don't wish to get involved in any previous disagreements, but I have to take issue with this statement.
How can this album be overpriced if more than one person was willing and happy to pay the price? (The underbidder was also willing to pay a slight amount under it.)

So because 2-people (for whatever reasons) decide to pay that much, it sets market value for the 100,000 other people in the hobby?

I think not and I believe most people here we also would agree. My example I gave earlier in this thread pointed that out. If two people decided to bid up a russian front medal to over $100+ five years ago did not set value then (try getting $100 for one now), $610 for a Artillery album on ebay does not set value now.

There is no such thing in the collecting world as a "current market value," just a guide as to the amount that people have recently been paying for similar items.
Max.

Fair market value has always been a range. A fair price for say a black wound badge is say $30-35 dollars. Now there are variables that may increase or decrease that value (condition, maker marking, etc) but there is a generally accepted range for 'today'. Just because someone is willing to pay $70 for one on ebay or you find one at a yard sale for $5 does not change today's current 'range' or market value.

[fknorr]

Sorry, what BS is this? Who mentioned past arguments?

Gary, please do not act silly or do you have some new memory loss problem? Your tone in this post as well as the last is indicative of all our past disagreements where you show your true colors, please do not get another thread closed down for your BS.

I think you wanted everyone to jump in here and make you feel better by saying "Yeah, what a moron. Fancy paying that amount...". There are hundred and one reasons why he wanted to pay this amount. As already mentioned there were two other people who bid more than you.

Everyone (almost) did say that it was overpriced. Now there are a couple folks here that think that whatever price is paid at whatever time is now somehow value...it is not. It may be "value" to that particular bidder/buyer but not to the collecting community as a whole. Now people say that at least two bidders thought it was worth that much but that is an inaccurate statement. Only ONE person thought it was worth that much, the other person bidding stopped at a lower amount so even he/she did not think it was worth $610. You are now down to one individual...which does not set 'market' value for artillery albums.

Never once did I say "poor me losing out on this album", only that it went for a ridiculous price and I stand by that.

You are correct in one area (for once), in that it could be any number of reasons it went that high...good or bad.

If this guy is a serious collector for items to this division then perhaps you should pick another unit? Or reconsider how much you really want these items.

In the approximately six or so months that I have been looking for items for items from this division, I can tell you how many items I have seen on ebay: 5 albums (I have lost out on two), approx. 12 photos (I have lost one) and one shoulderboard which I won. I do not think there are any other 14. I.D. collectors out there and I have done alright thus far, so I think I'll continue if that's OK with you.

I'll send the guy an e-mail and see if he's interested in the several 14 ID document groups I've got to sell.

You see Gary, this is typical Gary BS, stirring the pot.

First of all I do not believe you have any, so that might make you a bit of a fibber.

Next, if indeed you have any groups to sell - which I doubt, you more than likely have seen my want ads updated weekly in two threads for six months - so if indeed you had any to sell, not selling them to a fellow forum person looking for these, might also make you NOT a nice guy. I even (in my "wanted" threads) asked for scans if the owner did not want to sell the item....So Gary, if indeed you have any 14. I.D. groups, you wouldn't even scan them for a fellow forum member?

Lastly, if you had them -which I doubt, and only NOW decide to sell them to an individual who obvioulsy has more money than sense makes me wonder what type of guy you really are....?

This thread has run it's course. There are those here that will spend whatever amount of money on an item, no matter how OVER priced, as long as they 'want' it.

There are those of us that will not and I fall into this category.

Moderator, lock or delete...this one's done.

[Gary T]

Gary, please do not act silly or do you have some new memory loss problem? Your tone in this post as well as the last is indicative of all our past disagreements where you show your true colors, please do not get another thread closed down for your BS.

My first post was where I suggested he may have the soldiers SB\WP\documents. A perfectly reasonable assumption - ask collectors here who pay over the odds to reunite items. Yet, you arrogantly dismissed it. The attitude came from you.

Everyone (almost) did say that it was overpriced. Now there are a couple folks here that think that whatever price is paid at whatever time is now somehow value...it is not. It may be "value" to that particular bidder/buyer but not to the collecting community as a whole. Now people say that at least two bidders thought it was worth that much but that is an inaccurate statement. Only ONE person thought it was worth that much, the other person bidding stopped at a lower amount so even he/she did not think it was worth $610. You are now down to one individual...which does not set 'market' value for artillery albums.

Actually nearly eveyone on this thread hasn't said that. Yes, it went for more than the usual price but in this sellers eyes it wasn't 'over priced'. It was an auction and the price set itself. No-one here now thinks every album is worth $600...who says that and where?

Only one person thought it was worth $610...yes, very pedantic but another thought it was worth $600. So two individuals thought it was worth $600+. As everyone on here keeps saying...they thought it was worth that. You didn't. Get over it.

Never once did I say "poor me losing out on this album", only that it went for a ridiculous price and I stand by that.

You are correct in one area (for once), in that it could be any number of reasons it went that high...good or bad.

You implied the buyer was moronic...and yet everyone who posted on here has tried to explain why the price may not have been moronic to the buyer. And yet you are still bleating on about how this buyer must have been a) a moron b) not know what he was bidding on. Only the Great Fknorr knows the true price. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

In the approximately six or so months that I have been looking for items for items from this division, I can tell you how many items I have seen on ebay: 5 albums (I have lost out on two), approx. 12 photos (I have lost one) and one shoulderboard which I won. I do not think there are any other 14. I.D. collectors out there and I have done alright thus far, so I think I'll continue if that's OK with you.

Of course we don't know why he wanted this album...maybe he sees something in it that you don't. Maybe it is nothing to do with 14 ID. Maybe he's putting together a photo book for 105cm lFH 18/40. Maybe he's writing a history of AR 14. Maybe there are photos of his home town in the album etc, etc

You see Gary, this is typical Gary BS, stirring the pot.

Actually no, I only have an issue with you when you start spouting the crap that has seen you banned from many a Third Reich historical site in the last few years. On this thread you are acting like a spoilt five year old child whose parents have refused to buy him the the new toy from the toy shop.

First of all I do not believe you have any, so that might make you a bit of a fibber.

Oh, but I do...I have items to just about every combat division. Several to each in most cases. However, I do think I only have two 14 ID items left. One to Inf Regt (mot.) 11 and the other to Pz Jg Abt 14.

Next, if indeed you have any groups to sell - which I doubt, you more than likely have seen my want ads updated weekly in two threads for six months - so if indeed you had any to sell, not selling them to a fellow forum person looking for these, might also make you NOT a nice guy.

Never been in the wanted section. Everything I sell goes on the E-Stand where everyone gets a fair stab. I only make exceptions for people who I know.

Lastly, if you had them -which I doubt, and only NOW decide to sell them to an individual who obvioulsy has more money than sense makes me wonder what type of guy you really are....?

I'm selling everything I have. They get sold as I come to them.

Your comment above really gets to the source of your agitation. You think that ONLY you, the Great Fknorr, deserves to have this album. Because OBVIOUSLY the new owner knows nothing about 14 ID or photo albums. And because you can't have it the rattle has been thrown out of the pram. So now you think you deserve my 14 ID items more than this guy? Why?

This thread has run it's course. There are those here that will spend whatever amount of money on an item, no mater how OVER priced, as long as they 'want' it.

There are those of us that will not and I fall into this category.

Shall I start a thread bemoaning the fact I can't afford to buy a Ferrari, private jet, 100ft yacht, Rommel's personal paperwork? All because the nasty rich people buy them for inflated prices? All are overpriced to me - but it doesn't mean I think people shouldn't be allowed to pay over the odds if they see fit.

[fknorr]

Gary, I didn't read your ramble...not worth the time.

I am assuming you added little going by everything you've added (not) to threads in the past.

Adios, enjoy talking to yourself genius.

[max history]

Gary, I didn't read your ramble...not worth the time.

I am assuming you added little going by everything you've added (not) to threads in the past.

Adios, enjoy talking to yourself genius.

What a shame you take this attitude because someone disagrees with you. Gary makes some good points whereas there are several weaknesses in your argument. The bottom line is that there were at least three people willing to pay more than you. It wasn't just one person willing to pay around 600 for the item. It takes two to push up a price in an auction. You say that it was overpriced. Well that was your opinion. In other's, it obviously wasn't.
Max.

[Eric JB]

Auctions !!!!

I thought that the album was sold on an auction site !!!
Sometimes material is sold at bargain prices, but when more people are interested prices will go higher up, that has nothing to do with morons.(don't like the way the word is used here, and also know that people who do not collect the material we do - think that we have some mental disorder problems).

25 year ago I started to collect documents and photos.
Almost no one was interested in documents in those days, all what guys around me did collect were medals, helmets and uniforms.
20 years ago a SS Das Reich soldbuch : Panzerschütze with Panzerabzeichen i.Silber up to EK.1 who fought in France, Russia and the Ardennes did go for 125 US $ !!!!!

Between then and now, the number of document and photo collectors grow and grown.
Good material is harder to get and concerning prices the sky is now the limit.

We see more material around because of the internet, but dealers can see around in each others shops and compare.
In the past it was easy, a dealer asked a price and that was it.
Auctions in the past you had to visit, bid over the phone etc., now you can sit at your computer, it is all easier now, but more expensive than in the past.

What is overpriced ????, one wants to spend what one wants and can spend.
When I see something I am looking after for years I go for it, even when I think it is too expensive now.
I am a collector, I know one must have the momeny to spend for it too, but if I like it and I am interested in it comes first, price comes on a second place.
When I can not afford it.....then it goes to another one who wants it.
Just simple.
Take it or leave it.

And no......I didn't buy that SS Das Reich Soldbuch as it had too much wear, one could boil a good soup from it.
Yes in the beginning days of collecting I thought an item just should look good, just as it was with medals and uniforms.

Years later I knew what I missed / passed.
Now I see such booklets......when they are on the market as such booklets are seldom seen for 1500 to 2000 US $ and higher.

Must I say that it is overpriced now ????, no that is just the market that is working with what we collect and want to have.

I too am out-bidded by other who want to spend much more for it than what I want to pay for it - or what I think is a fair price.

People in the third world who fight the battle for food against starvation day by day ........ must think that we collectors in the righ west......have some mental disorder problems.

So Knor at the end it is just the amazing free world market that is working with the prices.

Eric-Jan Bakker