SS 4 Year Document on E-Stand.

[stgeorge64]

As I have never seen one before can anyone share their opinion of the example now for sale on the E-Stand? There are no 'howlers' shouting back at me telling me to avoid it but I have to say I am interested and need the 'safe feeling' from some of the knowledgeable members here. All help will be well received, many thanks.

Regards Richard.

[PHILBROWN]

well ive got one to an ss unterscharfurher johan jung, mine has his ss regestration card fixed to it by paper clip. dated by 5.8.46 on his capture by the allies in neustadt it reads the same ,but mine is very yellowed with age, and folded heavely too.i dont know how difficult it is to fake embosed paper. it looks very new to me , but it could be the light from the flash. i mean no offence to the seller in my reply, or imply it may be a bad one. phil.

[stgeorge64]

Phil

Thank you for your reply, does the one for sale on the e-stand conform to the same format, layout, stamp and typeface etc of your example?

Any help with this will be well received from all quarters.

Regards Richard.

[Simon O.]

SS isn't my thing so i can offer no meaningful opinion but i was just wondering if the SS continued to issue long service decorations as late as 1943?

[stgeorge64]

Simon, that is a very good point indeed and only serves to intrigue me further as to information concerning this type of document.

Someone out there on this forum has the knowledge I am sure, All help will be gratefully received.

Regards Richard.

[Adrian Stevenson]

Hi Simon, good point, I had always thought that long service medals ceased to be issued from 1941 and I presume that meant awards on paper only too?

I see the document on the E Stand is now no longer for sale.

Cheers, Ade.

[J C Gray]

The document in question bears all the hallmarks of the known fakes,which are available from re-enactment suppliers.
The easiest way of telling an original SS=Dienstauszeichnung urkunde from a reproduction, is by looking to the embossed seal at the lower left of the document, ie. on originals, the tail feathers between the legs of the eagle are visible, whilst, the postwar copies are missing this detail and the original embossing should be a lot more crisply defined.
When overlayed on a repro. 12 year doc, the facsimile signatures on the e-stand doc. are exactly the same, both in positioning & printing quality. It is still a matter of debate whether Meissner even signed these docs or not...Dr. Meissner submitted the proposals for the bestowal of these awards to Himmler, via Frick in the Reich Ministry for the Interior and as Himmler had the final say as to who qualified for the award, I would wonder why Meissner's signature would appear on such a document. I have seen 2 undoubted original examples which only had the Hitler signature.
These SS=Service awards are also known to have been produced in a gatefold version, although I am unsure as to what extent, or what reason this happened.

[stgeorge64]

The document in question bears all the hallmarks of the known fakes,which are available from re-enactment suppliers.
The easiest way of telling an original SS=Dienstauszeichnung urkunde from a reproduction, is by looking to the embossed seal at the lower left of the document, ie. on originals, the tail feathers between the legs of the eagle are visible, whilst, the postwar copies are missing this detail and the original embossing should be a lot more crisply defined.
When overlayed on a repro. 12 year doc, the facsimile signatures on the e-stand doc. are exactly the same, both in positioning & printing quality. It is still a matter of debate whether Meissner even signed these docs or not...Dr. Meissner submitted the proposals for the bestowal of these awards to Himmler, via Frick in the Reich Ministry for the Interior and as Himmler had the final say as to who qualified for the award, I would wonder why Meissner's signature would appear on such a document. I have seen 2 undoubted original examples which only had the Hitler signature.
These SS=Service awards are also known to have been produced in a gatefold version, although I am unsure as to what extent, or what reason this happened.

Thank you very much for the informative reply, that is exactly what I wanted to know! I noticed as Adrian has already indicated, that the item is no longer for sale. Either way, with the comments above the item would not of been for me anyway. Thanks again.

Regards Richard.