Now there's something you don't see every day...

[ANDY BUTKUS]

It seems that you're on your own Chris...

[Frank Heukemes]

In my opinion "genuine Germans", all three of them. Here is a picture of my father (usually of fair complexion) coming home from Africa for a few days off on Christmas. Compare to his friend who fought in a less sunny theater of war.

[Gerd W.]

Chris you******180;re a logical man, so let us think logical.

In 1937 the Sonderkommission 3 was instituted to sterilize all former children of the so called Rheinland-Bastarde. There were ruthless regulations about jewish and other people since the so called N******252;rnberger Gesetze 1935.
In 1940 several thousends of black French soldiers have been killed in France by regular troops and SS (because they were black), later black people have been "used" for countless medical experiments.

There were indeed some black people in TR (several thousend), who tried to live like all the other Germans. I******180;ll name Hans J******252;rgen Massaquoi (born in 1926) in that case. He was son of a Diplomat and was able to stay alive all the years in TR. But he was not allowed to join any organisation (he want to), any regular service or whatever else. Mr. Massaquoi is wellknown in the States and I******180;m sure his story as well.

There are a lot more facts to add. Anyway enough to say, that I didn******180;t think, that the soldier on the picture is a black German NCO (regular troops).

[münster]

Gerd, I was going to bring that up about the French Occupational troops..I read something to that fashion in Medicine Under the Third Reich...I think there were a lot here in the Rhineland. Sorry my mistake, K******246;ln, not the Rhineland, hence the name.

[Mark S.]

That is not a suntan. I would say he clearly had one white parent and one black parent. His father may have been, for example, a German colonial administrator in German Southwest Africa, German East Africa, or Togoland. Or, as Ingsoc noted, he may have been born of the liaison between a French colonial soldier and a German woman. His wife is also lightskinned black. I would guess she had three white and one black grandparent. A child with five white and three black grandparents could easily have blond hair.

stretching it pretty thin here...but by all means, keep guessing....

,

[TWP]

IMO opinion that is not a Black Man,,There is however a special "Dark German" Ironically most are from the North. It could be a suntan or one of these Germans I have mentioned.

Hey Dion, what may be the reasons for the "special dark Germans" from up North? What characteristics do they have? I am interested as I didnt know of such traits, especially up North where you would assume they would be more Saxon in nature. I wonder how this came about.

[münster]

Idunno TWP, my ex girlfriends ex boyfriend was like that. I seen his photo and asked I didnt know he was black,,he wasnt total straight German. Iam 50% Italian 50% German, none of that generations in USA stuff.Iam one of the olive skinned ones, so what I presume with Germany is that it spans from the Roman Empire, especially here in K******246;ln. My Exs boyfriend was from Hamburg, I have no idea why really,, he really looked black!! Ive discussed this with other Germans and they know about this,,strange stuff. Also maybe Tirol might have something to do with it? Another thing to add with my ineage is my Mother was blonde dark,, When you put us in the sun,,we turn into the WH guy in that foto Chris posted.

[Simon O.]

A photo of 2./GJR 138 ca.1942. See the 'dark' guy in the center




Photo of men from GJR 143 with a caputred Russian. The guy on the right has about the same skin tone...and this shot was taken in the arctic.


finally a photo of Romanian gypsies taken in '41.

[Frank Heukemes]

It is definitely our "Roman" genepool Dion must be talking about. The same why you also have dark haired/dark complexion Brits. Many people think that Germany was just brutally put into submission by the Romans. That is true for the beginning, but many, many decades of living together quite peacefully and of mixing followed. Germany became a Roman province and in fact many Germans were made "Romans."
Anyway, not the topic of this thread.

[münster]

Simon,,they are dark but not even close to what I mean,,but good description. I studied up a bit on Roma or Gypsies, and I do believe they came from Pakistan or India, hence the skin tone. I was looking for a pic of a girl I know with this skin tone, quite beautiful I might add, but I cannot find it. Sraight german Girl, beautiful olive skin.

[münster]

It is definitely our "Roman" genepool Dion must be talking about. The same why you also have dark haired/dark complexion Brits. Many people think that Germany was just brutally put into submission by the Romans. That is true for the beginning, but many, many decades of living together quite peacefully and of mixing followed. Germany became a Roman province and in fact many Germans were made "Romans."
Anyway, not the topic of this thread.

Viva Colonia Frank

[Frank Heukemes]

Simon, what do the Gypsies (who are of Indian origin) have to do with this?

[Mark S.]

Mentioned only as a point of context, there are full blooded Mexicans with vibrant red hair, pale skin and freckles. How they got this way, I dont know, but if that is possible, a dark skinned German really doesnt seem to be such a stretch, especially with a tan.


We can get wrapped up in our own sterotypes, sometimes it is easy to dismiss something out of the normal. This is also true when people declare that someone has "black features". I can show you pictures of African peoples from Algeria to Zanzibar that dont have any facial features in common. Not all black people look like Bernie Mac.

[Chris]

Andy, I don't care that there's the usual dogpile. Means a total zero to me. The man in the photograph I posted so clearly does not have Causasian features that it is difficult to believe this conversation is happening. From his facial features, skintone, and hair, there is not the slightest possibility that he is not part Negro. His wife is also clearly a light-skinned Negro.

Gerd, I have the Luftwaffe Soldbuch of a man whose parents' were both Jewish (the father of the man whose picture and assault gun wrapper are pictured in "German Paratroops" by "Robert Kurtz." He served the entire war, 1938-1945, in the Luftwaffe, despite being Jewish. How logical is that? Obviously, in a nation of 60 million people, anomalies happen.

[TWP]

Andy, I don't care that there's the usual dogpile. Means a total zero to me. The man in the photograph I posted so clearly does not have Causasian features that it is difficult to believe this conversation is happening. From his facial features, skintone, and hair, there is not the slightest possibility that he is not part Negro. His wife is also clearly a light-skinned Negro.

Gerd, I have the Luftwaffe Soldbuch of a man whose parents' were both Jewish (the father of the man whose picture and assault gun wrapper are pictured in "German Paratroops" by "Robert Kurtz." He served the entire war, 1938-1945, in the Luftwaffe, despite being Jewish. How logical is that? Obviously, in a nation of 60 million people, anomalies happen.

It is my opinion that there were a few members of the Luftwaffe who looked Semetic to me. For some reason in my opinion I have seen more faces that looked more semetic in the luftwaffe than in other branches. So I can see that there would be non German looking people serving in the military. So yes, I am sure many anomolies did happen.

Also, some members of the wehrmacht had last names such as Abraham. Is this a straight up "Germanic" sir name? I never would have thought so. I am curious...

As an aside, I read recently on the BBC that 1% of all Britons have DNA that is African in origin. Dated from when the Romans had African garrison troops in Briton.
Also, I have heard exactly what Dion said about Kolsch inhabitants. That some Germans from that region have Roman blood from the times when as Frank said, was from Roman troops marrying German women during the relatively peaceful times of trade and cultural exchanges.