La crème de la crème ....

[François SAEZ]

I was able to located (thanks to Denis) and buy a LW picture with an Ehrenblattspange worn by ............ a pilot (DK holder) - if my memory serves me well, only 2 other Ehrenblattspange of the LW worn are known - one pilot, one para (both in Gordon's book).

[Angel Farré]

Francois again you rised the standards, do you know who is this gentleman? is alone or the picture is part of a group?

Thanks and waiting to have a little of your luck someday

Angel

[François SAEZ]

on the back is written
" 1945
Norwegen"


But no clue on the identity of the guy

[Angel Farré]

A pity, if it comes with other photos we can try to determinate the unit and his name, but........

As I have read those previously awarded the Ehrenpokal or the Ehrenschale could wear the Ehrenblattspange, but only three pictures have been surfaced of this medal in wear and we are talking of thousands of holders, estimated over 30.000. Looks like if was not widely distrubuited or not known by the soldiers.

What's your opinion? Have you talk about this with Ehrenpokal holders?

Angel

[François SAEZ]

My opinion is that the goblet winners were automatically eligible for the Ehrenblattspange in 1944 (August) of the LW which means they could convert their non portable award by a portable decoration. But I believe that nobody received both decorations - Honor goblet before August 1944 - and after this date they received the Ehrenblattspange . I believe an economic point entered here as Ehrenblattspange were less expensive to produce than Goblets. But my understanding is that winners of Ehrenblattspange or Honor goblet were eligible for both decorations


More can be found there:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/hono...affe_clasp.htm

[François SAEZ]

Concerning research

LW unit in Norway in 1945
It seems (difficult to be sure) that the clasp is for a bomber
The guy is a DK winner,NCO, pilot

[Angel Farré]

If I don't understand bad you mean that after August 1.944 LW members could be awarded the Ehrenpokal or the Ehrenblattspange so both awards existed from this point till the end of the war as two separate decorations, one portable and another non portable and that soldiers who had received, pre August 1.944, the Ehrenpokal could chose to wear the Ehrenblattspange if they want?

Angel

[François SAEZ]

Sorry, I was not clear, it was not a choice, I think at this time, they were not giving goblets anymore (too expensive) but for the same acts than for the goblet, they were given the Ehrenblattspange (instead of the goblet) but imagining they had won the war, winners of the goblet could have worn the Ehrenblattspange and vice versa. That could explain the huge number of recipients (eligible) compare to the few pics known

Not sure it is clear and remember I could be wrong

[Angel Farré]

Now is clear, you mean that they substite the goblet for the spange in August 1.944 and if the war has been won or continue far away from May 1.945 winners of the goblet could be displayed his award in the way of wearing the Ehrenblattspange.

This is more or less what I think, but I atribute the low number of Ehrenblattspange photos and known documents to the caos of the war and to the ingnorance of the regulations by the soldiers that could be worn the awrd, I think not too much time in this months to think about purchasing an spange to wear in the tunic so everyone knew you have the Ehrenpokal. Different with the Heer as no award existed prior the institution of the Ehrenbalttspange so is the only way to show it and they have more time to know the award.

Here we have another discussion matter.

Thanks

Angel

[Rick White]

Very intersting discussion, François and Angel. In addition to the comments already made, I might add that the award itself may have been considered a bit redundant for recipients of the DKiG and RK. Since the awarding of LW decorations appears to have been more technical (generally based on number of Fiendfluge), it could be easily assumed that a DKiG holder would also have already been awarded the Ehrenpokal. So, wearing the Ehrenblattspange may not have conveyed that much and contributed to the lack of enthusiasm in aquiring one. Below is a list taken from Dierich's book on KG55 where he lists the award criteria as of March 1943.

15 Feindflüge - EK II.
20 Feindflüge - Frontflugspange in Bronze
25-40 Feindflüge - EK I.
60 Feindflüge - Frontflugspange in Silber
80 Feindflüge - Ehrenpokal des Reichsmarschalls
110 Feindflüge - Frontflugspange in Gold
140 Feindflüge - Deutsches Kreuz in Gold
200-400 Feindflüge - Ritterkreuz des Eisernen Kreuzes

Of course, these changed considerably throughout the war and from unit to unit. Nevertheless, it illustrates the difference, I believe, in the attitude and procedure of awards given between the LW and other service branches.

Rick

P.S. Great photo François.

[François SAEZ]

Few documents exist, as far as I know, concerning the attribution of the Ehrenblattspange of the LW

- A document (typed) for an Oberfeldwebel (Ernst Hahn) from 2./Nah-Aufklärungs- Gruppe 4, dated 8 MAY 1945, signed by a General der Panzertruppen und oberbefehlshaber der Armee Ospreussen. I only know the picture


- A Soldbuch with the entry for the Ehrenblattspange der LW for a NCO in 1./N.S.G. 2 , dated January 2,1945 - see pic (note, the Ehrenblattspange didn't come with the soldbuch)

[Gene]

OUT-FRIGGING-STANDING

[Simon O.]

This guys name shouldn't be too hard to narrow down to a short list at least. The LW units stationed in Norway at the time are well known as are recipients of the DKiG. Can you make out what clasp he's wearing on the original? It's a bit fuzzy to me but it does look somewhat like a bomb.

Here's a useful site. LW in Norway 10.5.1945

So if he was a bomber pilot then the likely unit is KG26. Using Scherzer's book on DKiG holders of the LW an initial check of NCO's between Uffz. and Fw. would give us 17 names to begin with. These could be whittled down further by cross referencing them with the volksbund database.

Elements of KG26 were based at Bardufoss, Vaernes near Trondheim and Gardemoen near Oslo. I know all three airfields and the background scenery in the photo could quite easily fit all three locations.



regards

Simon

[François SAEZ]

Simon,

If you could list the possible names, I will be able to check in books, their speciality, if the have received the honor Goblet, if they were pilot,gunner ...........

Thanks
François

[Simon O.]

Ok, Francois i'll get on it this evening. The volksbund database was down last night so i hope it's up again today.



Simon