Panzer doc IV Stufe

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,

Would appreciate some assistance here. I'm being offered this numbered PAB doc for the IV grade of the PAB in silver to a soldier of 3./Führer-Panzer-JägerAbteilung 1.

I would like to add this to my collection but I'm not sure about the correct price setting for this type of doc. Any advice would be highly appreciated. I know price questions are always a bit delicate so please don't hessitate to PM or e-mail me (hb.consulting@pandora.be).

Many thanks in advance.

KR
Philippe

[Simon O.]

Forgive my ignorance here but 3./Führer-Panzer-Jäger-Abteilung 1?

[Simon O.]

We need other peoples input here as Pz.Jäg units are not my thing.

These are the issues i have with this doc at the moment.

I don't know of any unit called "Führer-Panzer Jäger Abteilung 1"
Panzerjäger should be one word.
The stamp shows a Stug abt. The number of which i can't make out
It's signed by a regimental commander yet the stamp and unit show abteilung.

Can anyone make any of that information fit somehow?

[Akira Takiguchi]

Found this: http://www.ww2awards.com/person/2038

Patzwall/Schertzer says just "Panzer-Jäger-Abteilung 1" about Bergmann but I vaguely remember this strange name too... We need someone who is into "Last of the Kampfgruppen".

[Simon O.]

Good find Akira, Scheibert's DKiG book lists Bergmann's unit as 3./Fhr.Pz.Jg.Abt.1

There is of course the possibility that this is one of the very late war units but what if this entry is actually a typo and Bergmann was meant to be something like Geschutze-führer 3./Pz.Jg.Abt.1 ?

[F L Clemens]

I'm surprised at you guys. Fuehrer often refers to a subunit of one of the Fuehrer units, i.e. Fuehrer-Begleit and Fuehrer-Grenadier. In this case, it was probably part of FBD.

[Simon O.]

You could be on to something there. I can't find any specific reference to a Führer-Panzerjäger Abt.1 but other units of the FBD are shown as having changed names in April '45 so it would make sense
I know the FBD had Panzerjäger Abt. 673, previously Stug abt.200 so if that stamp shows stug abt 200, and the first 2 digits do seem to be 20 then things look much clearer.

[Akira Takiguchi]

Frederick, the problem was that sometimes-incomplete Tessin does not list it. And that you, versed in the Berlin battle I believe, must say "it was probably part of FBD", proves lack of documentaion...

[F L Clemens]

I'll try a little harder to find it for you. Checked the Spaeter GD trilogy quickly but didn't find it.

[Denis]

Hello

Would it be possible to have a darker copy of the document ? I can't read it easily. A scan from the rubber stamp and all the typographed parts would be also welcome.
I don't have the slightest documentation with me but I wonder how a soldier belonging to a Panzer Jäger unit would be allowed to wear the PAB in silver ? If my memory serves me, I believe that a regulation issued in December 1944 enabled to some very specific units to receive this PAB in silver. But as far as I remember, it was based upon the type of panzer the crew used (e.g. Hetzer, Jadgpanther....). I need to check this point this evening to know if the PKA in Silber was possible or not.
Regards
Denis

[Simon O.]

As i understand it Panzerjäger Abt. 673 was equipped with the Jagdpanther.

[Philippe DB]

Hi Guys,


Thanks for the help, much appreciated.

Denis this is the best I can do based upon the pics I have.

KR
Philippe

[Philippe DB]

Detail

[Angel Farré]

73 battle days??????????????

Panzer are not my best, but I want to hear something more about this little treasure/trash?

I think I have/had a piece with a similar unit designation, I will dive into my collection and archives.

It comes alone or with other citations?

Angel

[Ian Jewison]

What is the unit stamp? Sturm.Gesch.Abt 20x?

Interestingly appears to be stamped by an Abteilung but signed by a Major u. Rgts. Kommandeur!?! A few Stug Abt. were actually converted to Brigades in 1944, however then it would have a signature of a Brigade Kdr!?!?! Unless it was recently wiped out and reformed!

At that stage of the war paperwork went to pot anyway....

Possibly a short lived unit, however so far I have not been able to find anything regarding this unit either as an independant unit of Führer Grenadier/Begleit Division.....

/Ian