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**Rick White** · 11-22-2002, 02:20 PM

...and this one? I think this might be for 2 Batterie of an Artillerie unit, but I am not sure.

**Tommy** · 11-22-2002, 03:00 PM

The second picture seems to me who a artillery tactical sign.
The first is a picture in Poland??it seems to me a tross(Nachschub unit) from a battailion.

**Akira Takiguchi** · 11-22-2002, 09:52 PM

In the first photo, the "key of city Bremen" is clearly seen on the fender (see an article in <a href="http://www.ne.jp/asahi/wwii/panzer/images/">my site</a>, titled Flakmänner aus Bremen). So the unit is from Bremen, you can narrow down your target quite a bit

**Rick White** · 11-23-2002, 12:03 AM

Tommy,

Thanks for the reply. I agree with you ...I think it is the 2 Batterie of an artillerie unit. I was hoping someone could be specific as to the unit.

Akira,

Also thanks....Interesting. I assume you refer to the truck in the top right of the photo with regards to the key insignia. Arre you implying that this makes the vehicle attached to Flak Rgt. 26? Any clue what the insignia on the left two vehicles represents? It looks like some type of "tings" os some sort....???

Rick

**Akira Takiguchi** · 11-23-2002, 12:49 AM

>Are you implying that this makes the vehicle attached to Flak Rgt. 26?

I'm afraid not. The insignia on the truck is an exact reproduction of the insignia of City Bremen ( http://www.bremen.de/haupt.html ), while I./Flak-Rgt.26 had an upside-down insignia. Motto: when it's not an exact lookalike, consider another option!

The left two vehicles has a quite interesting sign... Something like a Sputonik?

Well, it looks like a wire cutter, maybe? Do they happen to be pioneers?

**Tommy** · 11-23-2002, 02:59 AM

Or a symbol for a Commander ??? it gives the commander von Zangen...he lead the 15.Army in Holland...

**Akira Takiguchi** · 11-24-2002, 03:14 AM

Hallo Tommy, was ist Ihr Grund für 15.Armee / von Zangen? Das interessiert mich sehr!

**Tommy** · 11-24-2002, 12:17 PM

Akira...

I think some german generals have his own symbol on the car..How Guderian Kleist or Dietrich...

It is example possible that this unit a Symbol have who the Commanders name 'Zange'...

Hallo Akira...

Bitte schreib mir was du noch an Einheiten suchst damit ich dir helfen kann..

Also zu denn Fotos mein ich das es evtl. von einem Stab bzw,. kann es sein das die Einheit ein Symbol verwendete das den Namen des Kommandeures beeinhaltet.Es gab ,wie sie wissen auch einheiten die Symbole ihres Kommandeurs verwendeten z.B. denn Dietrich schlüssel,Die PolizeiDivision, Guderian etc.

ist nur eine Theorie...Denn in denn 4 Bänden mit Truppenkennzeichen hab ich nichts gesehen..

**Akira Takiguchi** · 11-24-2002, 11:33 PM

Dear Tommy, you're right, so many Wehrmacht's Truppenkennzeichen are related to their commanders... Zange, pliers, might indeed be his name.

**Rick White** · 11-24-2002, 11:53 PM

Hi Akira,

Okay, I see now what you are saying regarding the Key symbol. Also, regarding the main symbol I am asking about, you are right! It does look like Sputnik! Ha ha! Could be wire cutters, but I am not for sure. I do not think this is a Pionier unit, however. Most probably an artillery unit. However, there are several photos of a trailer-mounted twin MG.

Here is the writing on the back. the handwriting (other than "Neufchatel")is too bad for me to make out. Maybe someone can help.

Tommy - The photo was taken in Neufchatel, France. Interesting speculation regarding von Zangen.

Thanks!

Rick

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**erichcraciun** · 11-25-2002, 03:18 PM

I think the writing on the back says "das war deutsch gesprochen"

Erich Craciun

**Akira Takiguchi** · 12-07-2002, 11:19 AM

The Bremen key might be from Beobachtungs-Abteilung 22 (Heerestruppe, subordinated to 22.Infanterie-Division). We can see vaguely a shield in darker color behind the key, so a fairly good lookalike.

By the way, while looking at PK photographs taken in France by a Bildberichter of 16.Armee, the following photo caught my eyes. It shows a ligature(?) ?-B. Possibly the AOK marking of 16.Armee, denoting Busch. Never before reported in publication, as far as I know... Let me know if it's known.

<img src="http://www.history.jp/images/AOK16-SdKfz251-Bs.jpg">

**Tommy** · 12-07-2002, 06:03 PM

I has a photo from a Stug with a B.I mean it was the France Compaign.My Theory is that the different Combatgroups have a
sign how Alphabet.A,B,C,D...

This Stug..above left has a B at the right side.

**Akira Takiguchi** · 12-07-2002, 08:25 PM

Tommy, those alphabets were used by Artillerie (and Flak, KM) to denote gun numbers. Sturmgeschütz was not a Panzertruppen equipment, but an Artillerie equipment. Thus in early stage of war A-F were used.

For this Sd.Kfz.251, it is still possible that it is from Artillerie (then the same rule applies). Only a handful of units used Sd.Kfz.251s during western campaign, including a StuG-Batterie. So I do not deny the idea of the sign being an Aritillrie-style B, but the B having two horizontal extra

bar makes me think otherwise.

Again: when it's not an exact lookalike, probably it's not.

By the way, very nice pictures of early StuG unit! Looks like it has a unit marking on the hull, or just some dirt? I am always very interested in StuGs.

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