Virtual photo-theft or not?

[Akira Takiguchi]

So don't mind about copyright. But I am against brainless reposting of the scans seen in other forums because it will discourage the photo owners to share the scans of their collection. Gary is right, those who are afraid of reposting will not share any more... A great loss to the community.

Don't be afraid to post one scan from a book when it does help the discussion. With reason. With exact source (when quoting online resources, please avoid "somewhere from the net" as much as possible, show URL). With a thank you.

I don't want to see scans reposted just because it is cool - I hate the phrase when brainless reposters say "I posted it because I thought it is cool."

Our forum must be a place for brainfull discussion, a place for art of creation.

[Robert Noss]

I fully agree with Akira's statement.
I really have no problem at all when somebody uses one of my photos to help to illustrate a certain discussion in a Forum. In that case a short credit to the source should be made. Even if the poster does not know who the original owner is, he should say that it is not HIS photo. That is easy and does not offend anybody. At least not me.

My problem are those posters who "collect" pictures from various sources and post them just to get compliments how "cool" they are. That is childish.

Well, it is much easier to sit in front of a screen, use Google to search for certain pictures and grab them on your hard-disc, isn't it ?

I get up early in the morning, go on flea-markets, in winter it is cold, summer sometimes hot (okay, not this year), sometimes it's raining. I drive long ways to get there, walk around the whole morning and sometimes pay a lot of real money to get the right photo. Seems that I am old-fashioned, it is much easier in the virtual world, hmm ?

Maybe some of You have noticed that for some time now I do not have any markings on my scans anymore. The markings have not prevented the grabbing of my photos from my website or from any Forums. So what for. It is only additional work for me and takes more time.

I think it is a general cultural problem of todays society. Some modern form of communism. Everything in the virtual world is public freeware. They forget that at one end there is a real person who owns the real thing. Be it a photo, a song, a video or just anything.
If a virus from outer-space is turning their hard-discs into chocolate pudding, I will still have my photo-collection in the real world.

'Nough said.

Kind regards
Robert

[Simon O.]

I agree completely with the points made by Akira, Gary and Robert.


I think the two points Greg posted are pretty good guidlines

§Images must be posted at low-resolution
<O</O
§Copyright and trade mark owners must be credited for the use of their images whenever this is reasonably possible"

I especially like the point about low resolution, when posting on forums such as these we have to post photos in a low resolution for the most part. That's fine for viewing on a computer but useless if you want to make a decent quality print, use it in a publication or similar. If i see photos that are of great interest to me, from my home town for example, then i often ask the owner if i could possibly have a hi-res scan for my files. Naturally if anyone sees a photo i have and would like the same then i've no problem at all in sending them hi-res scans.

As Akira says, posting a scan from a book to help or illustrate a point in a discussion seems fair use to me too. As long as proper credit is given, i would think that it even acts as a good bit of free publicity for the book in question.

[TONY Q.W.]

Very well said Mr. Noss

I fully agree with Akira's statement.
I really have no problem at all when somebody uses one of my photos to help to illustrate a certain discussion in a Forum. In that case a short credit to the source should be made. Even if the poster does not know who the original owner is, he should say that it is not HIS photo. That is easy and does not offend anybody. At least not me.

My problem are those posters who "collect" pictures from various sources and post them just to get compliments how "cool" they are. That is childish.

Well, it is much easier to sit in front of a screen, use Google to search for certain pictures and grab them on your hard-disc, isn't it ?

I get up early in the morning, go on flea-markets, in winter it is cold, summer sometimes hot (okay, not this year), sometimes it's raining. I drive long ways to get there, walk around the whole morning and sometimes pay a lot of real money to get the right photo. Seems that I am old-fashioned, it is much easier in the virtual world, hmm ?

Maybe some of You have noticed that for some time now I do not have any markings on my scans anymore. The markings have not prevented the grabbing of my photos from my website or from any Forums. So what for. It is only additional work for me and takes more time.

I think it is a general cultural problem of todays society. Some modern form of communism. Everything in the virtual world is public freeware. They forget that at one end there is a real person who owns the real thing. Be it a photo, a song, a video or just anything.
If a virus from outer-space is turning their hard-discs into chocolate pudding, I will still have my photo-collection in the real world.

'Nough said.

Kind regards
Robert

[Christian Anker]

My personal oppinion is, that I usually don't min my photographs being posted, as long as it is done to make a point, and as long someone links back to my website.
I acknowledge that I one day, these photographs won't exist in paper form anymore, which is why I scan them in high resolution, but I prefer to keep the high-resolution scans for myself, unless someone contacts be with a purpose (e.g. modellers looking for some extra details in a photograph of mine), though I'm usually not too keen on people requesting the photographs without any ultimate purpose.
They may be ligitimate, but they may also just want cheap access to photographs for their website (the latter of which would hurt my website - something I obviously do not want).

One could say I like some level of control with my images. I must admid, though, that I haven't made any preperations to what should happen with my photographs after my death, but I imagine giving them to some kind of organization.


Regarding photographs at AHF
If you see any of your photographs being posted on AHF, don't hesitate to contact me or one of the other moderators there. I hope you can all appreciate, that with more than 15,000 members, it is difficult to track down every photograph posted, but we try our best to limit the most blatant abuse. Just to be clear, this is not an official message from AHF.

[michael kenny]

The ML Axis forum has never recovered from the bust up. Prior to the complaint by a single individual the ML Axis Forum was the best Axis equipment site by a mile.
Nowdays you see very few posts that match the depth or quality of the old days. Sadly very little new information Is being posted there nowdays and it is a lesson how overeaction to a few troublemakers can lead to the baby being thrown out with the bathwater.

[Carl Ellingstad]

Some years ago I had a web-site called Festung Norwegen, where I illustrated with photo and text the G/K43 rifle and all related items to it. After one year on the web I started to find both period photos and photos I had taken myself on other web-sites with either credit or no credit. But no one had requested permit from me to use it. Still today several of my photos are floating around on different web-sites. I closed the web-site cause of this problem and I have no understanding for those who use others work to easily build up a junk-site.

[Bill Murray]

It is maybe not that easy

I hope to make a longer post on this subject in the next day or two but here are some brain twisters for all of you to consider when it comes to "ownership" of an image.

First is a phot taken by my father in China in the 1930s. I "own" it but I have posted it on several forums for all to enjoy.

[Bill Murray]

Next is a photo taken by me, also shared on the net.

[Bill Murray]

Next is a scan from a magazine that I paid good money for.

[Bill Murray]

Next is a scan from a brochure that I also paid handsomely for.

[Bill Murray]

My question, I guess is, who really owns what???


I have an original photo taken by my father, one taken by me, a clip form a magazine that I paid money for and a photo scan from a brochure, of which many hundreds were produced at least, and which I also purchased.

For myself, I only wish to share photos and information and do not wish to make money on it. I think the present situation with the internet makes this possible and I think we all benefit from it.
Bill

[Akira Takiguchi]

Bill, think not too hard about it (about WWII photos - recent one is another story). It's about common courtesy - can you imagine what others will think about this? That's all.

Collectors are floating between "share as much as possible" and "these are all mine and/or make money off it". Money-only guys will not come here, they never share. But let us not chase the guys in-between off to the other extreme.

I have to add one thing: you may think that you benefit the reader by posting scans, but in reality it's only halfway. You will be doing readers real favor when the source is clearly stated so that interested readers can easily track the original for better scans or more information.

Christian, at least I won't complain to other forums because it's not about legal matter. It's your forum's inside matter, I occasionally read your forum and like some part of it but also I don't care about your way of descipline. Running a forum is a difficult thing. But "too big" is no excuse.