Panzerjäger Abteilung 25 composition 1.944

[Angel Farré]

I wonder if someone can provide me with an unit detail of what comprise this unit from August 44 till the end of the war.

Normally a type 44 will be comprised of staff company plus three combat companies, 1st with towed PAKs, 2nd with Stugs or Hetzer and the 3rd with Flak guns. Is this correct?

Thanks

Angel

[leib1]

1 Staff and Staff Battery(1 LMG and 3 Stug)
2 Sturmgeschütz Battery (14 Stug and 14 LMGs each)
1 (Motz.)Panzerjäger Battery (12 LMGs and 12 75mm PAK 40)
1 (Mot) supply Kp.(3 LMGs)
1.10.44

1 Batl. Staff
1(mot) Bat.Staff Kp.
1 Sturmgeschütz Zug (3 Stug)
2 Sturmgeschütz Battery (10 stug each)
1 (Motz.)Panzerjäger Battery (12 LMGs and 12 75mm PAK 40)
1 (Mot.) Sturmgeschütz supply Kp.
7.11.44 source Nafziger

[Archi]

Hi Angel and leib1 !

I think the data presented by leib1 are basically correct, but it might be worth mentioning :

a) that the October Gliederung is very probably a Soll-Gliederung, while that from 7.Nov. could be an Ist-Gliederung.
(Shortly after the 7.11.44 the 25. Pz.Gren.Div. (still in the process of re-formation) was committed as Kampfgruppe at Thionville.)

b) The two StuG batteries were actually equipped with Pz.Jg. IV.

c) In March 1945, the remnants of PzAbt. 303 (Funklenk) were incorporated as a Pz.Zug (Fkl.) 303.

d) Kdr. from Nov. 44 - March 45 was Major Hans Spiegel (DKiG).

[Most details are from an article of Scherzer on this unit].

Cheers,

Archi

[Angel Farré]

Thanks a lot for the information, I have two groups from this unit and both from the 3rd Company this is why I ask this because I want to know if, as normal, this was the one equipped with PAKs or was with AFV, one photo form one of the soldier shows him in a black panzer wrap so I think all could be wearing the black wrap despite they were not part of an AFV crew. Incidentally one of the groups is from the Company Chef from December 1.944 till the end.

Angel

[Archi]

Hi Angel !

I see your point now. According to the infos I have, the 1. and 2. Kp. should be those with the AFV, and the
3. Kp. was equipped with 7,5 cm Pak.

Cheers,

Archi

[Angel Farré]

Thanks Archi, now I am sure they were serving PAK guns and that in this unit soldiers wore black wrappers no matter if they crew an AFV or serving guns.

Any info where they fought from November 1.944 till end of the war? I say this because the officer and company chef ended as POW with french troops and no indication of any other unit after being appointed Company Chef on December 1st, 1.944 of the 3rd Company.

Angel

[Archi]

Hi Angel !

Here is some info on the actions of 25. Pz.Gren.Div. in late 44 / early 45 :

After the division was almost destroyed in the East in June/July 1944, its reorganization
started in August at Grafenwöhr. In early November the division was transferred to
Baumholder training ground and it was organized as a "Kampfgruppe 25. Pz.GrenDiv."
(Pz.Brig. 107 incorporated).

When it was sent into action on the 10. Nov. 1944, it consisted of :
- 3 Pz.Gren.Btls (of very mixed composition)
- Art.Abt. 25 (3 batteries le FH)
- Pz.Abt. 5 (3 Kp. Panther, 1 Kp. Pz IV)
- PzJg.Abt 25 (2 Kp. Pzjg. IV, 1 Kp. 7,5cm Pak)

and 1 Pi.Kp, 1 Nachr.Kp. and some supply units.

The KGr. 25. Pz.Gren.Div. started its counterattack against the American bridgehead near
Diedenhofen (Thionville) on 12.11., 3:00 a.m. at Kerling (12 km ENE Thionville)
in the direction of Petite Hettange and Hunting, towards Malling.
It had some initial success, but was finally halted due to superior allied artillery and
antitank forces and also the lack of own infantry.

Over the next days, the Kampfgruppe fought at different places :
Immeldingen and Bertrange, heavy fighting at Diesdorf, Veckring, Halswiesen and Silwingen.
On the 26.11 the KGr. 25.PZ.Gren.Div. was withdrawn from the front and assembled near Merzig.
(Interestingly, those actions are closely related to the fighting of KGr. Friedrich, mentioned here : )
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...3&postcount=19

But the KGr. did not get any time to rest (it had received high losses and only 7 tanks and 4 Pzjg IV
were left) :
On the night of 26./27. Nov. the KGr. received an order to assist a counterattack, launched
by Panzerlehr-Div. from Saarunion to the South.
Therefore, KGr. 25. Pz.Gren.Div. moved to Saarunion area and took positions south of it,
at Wolfskirchen and Rauweiler. The attack of Pz.Lehr-Div. was halted and the KGr. 25. Pz.Gren.Div.
had to retreat over the next days via Mackweiler, Diemeringen, Enchenberg.

Around the 13.12.44 the Kampfgruppe finally took positions in the Maginot-line, along a line :
Ferme Freudenberg - Werk Schiesseck - Bitsch. Over the next 2 weeks, very heavy fighting took place
for Werk Schiesseck and the City of Bitsch (Bitche), with many attacks and counterattacks,
but the Kampfgruppe could basically defend its positions. For this success it was mentioned in the
Wehrmachtbericht on 24.12.44.

On the night 26./27.12. the KGr. 25. Pz.Gren.Div. was withdrawn from frontline and was transferred to
Pirmasens area for rest and refit, where it received missing elements of the division, got replacements
and additional equipment and finally became a full division again.

Already from the 8. January 1945 onward the Division took part in operation "Nordwind" and saw some
bitter fighting over the next two weeks (with high losses on both sides) at Hatten and Rittershoffen.

On the 21.1. the division was relieved, just to launch another attack on 24.1.45, West of Hagenau. The division
was able to seize two bridgeheads across the Moder and hold them during the next day. However, those had
to be given up on the 26.1., as the division received orders to regroup for a transfer to the East.
[All the above information is compiled from the divisional history of 25. Pz.Gren.Div. by Erwin Boehm]

In principle, during all those combat, the KGr. or division fought always against US troops. But in January 45,
the closest French units were only a few km away, so it might be possible that the officer was either
taken POW by them or handed over by US troops.

Cheers,

Archi

[Angel Farré]

Archi, you are wonderful, thanks a lot for all this info, now I can start to know what happen to two of "my" soldiers, one of them the company commander of the 3rd from Panzerjäger Abteilung 25.

Incredible info, thanks again, now you have put on the map two groups I have no idea were from west front fighters.

Angel

[Angel Farré]

I am trying again to pi9npoint where my two soldiers were and how theu fougjt and I have a little problem, as you can see in the links to the two groups in the citation of the NCO for his CCCiB is mentioned he was a crew of am armored vehicle so hos it can be a PAK? any explanation to this.

Thanks again for your help.

NCO group, look he is portrayed with a black wrapper and mentioned in his CCC citation as S.F.s.Pz.Jäg.Abt 25. http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=631708

Company Chef of the same company from December 1st, 1.944 till end of war,
http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...d.php?t=631740

Angel

[Archi]

Hi Angel !

I think the explanation for the mentioning of Uffz. Schneider as beeing equipped with a Sfl. vehicle is the following :

All the documents you posted in the other thread are issued bei AOK 4 during the timeframe Sept.-Oct. 1944, when AOK 4
was still committed in the east and 25. Pz.Gren.Div. was in the process of rebuilding at Grafenwöhr training ground.

So, in my understanding, these documents were issued for the accomplishments of Uffz. Schneider
during the defensive fighting in June and July 1944, and also the unit mentioned in the docs (3. Kp. (S.F.) )
is that one, he was affiliated at that time, when his division was under the command of AOK 4.

In 1943/1944 Pz.Jg.Abt. 25 was organized with 1.-2. Kp.(mot.Z.), 3.Kp. (Sfl.), 4.Kp. (Fla-Sfl.),
which is in agreement with the documents.

During the the reformation of Pz.Jg.Abt. 25, this changed to the organization mentioned above :
1. -2. Kp. Pzjg. IV, 3. Kp. 7,5cm Pak

Hope this helps, cheers,

Archi