ID nice wooden sign please!

[Rogerd]

Hi,

Can someone ID these tactical signs on this wooden sign?

I have two, they were kept by a Belgian veteran.

Thanks in advance!!

[Rogerd]

kasino

[BergführerKiser]

Servus Brecht,

I read the first sign as 1. Batterie/Artillerie-Regiment 17 Batterie Commander and the other is for the officer's casino.

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...Reg/AR17-R.htm

Artillerie vor!

Patrick

[Rogerd]

Thanks Patrick,

What division is the star for? I believe that is a divisional sign?

Artillerie-Regiment 17 was part of witch division?

[Simon O.]

I'm not so sure. The three lines look more like the tactical symbol for an artillery piece. The 7th battery for sure and if the star is a unit sign then with luck it should be identifiable.

[Simon O.]

1st bty of A.R. 17 should be written 1./17 at the least. Roman numerals denoted battalions so those three straight lines make little sense other than as the symbol for artillery.

[jmark]

The three lines look more like the tactical symbol for an artillery piece. The 7th battery for sure and if the star is a unit sign then with luck it should be identifiable.

100% agree.

[Rogerd]

Thanks alot for the replys!

So the seventh battery. But to witch unit? Can someone help me with the star symbol?

[Tom Yanacek]

I'm not so sure. The three lines look more like the tactical symbol for an artillery piece. The 7th battery for sure and if the star is a unit sign then with luck it should be identifiable.

I agree with Simon. The three vertical lines is a tactical symbol for artillery and the red color also designates artillery. The '7' definitely indicates the 7th battery. I am pretty sure that this specific tactical marking is for a 75mm field gun battery.

Best regards,
Tom

[BergführerKiser]

Grüß Gott Kameraden,

I can agree that the 3 lines denote the tactical symbol for artillery, but I also look at this as a clever graphic element (as a graphic artist myself) which serves dual purposes on the sign...as a tactical symbol and as the unit designator.

In the graphic design of this sign you can tell that the tactical/unit designator and the star emblem have been stenciled while the "Batterie Chef" and "Kasino" have been hand painted. This tells me that signs were massed produced with the two outer elements and then the center names were hand painted as needed. I've been trying to find the star emblem in my reference books...but no luck yet. ****Just searched the wwiidaybyday.com website and found the star emblem...M.G.Btl. 10. Now this really puts a monkey wrench in the works!

Another thing that is puzzling is the "Kasino" (Officer's club) sign. There are typically about 114 officers in an artillery regiment. It seems unlikely that there would be a 'Kasino' for only a battery which has only 3 officers. I would think that there would be a 'Kasino' at the battalion level for 20-30 officers.

So this is still the dilemma...what unit is this? There is an Artillerie-Regiment 7 within the 7th Infantry Division and an Artillerie-Regiment 17 within the 17th Infantry Division. So is this a sign for I Btl./Art.Rgt. 17 or 1 Batterie/Art.Rgt. 17, or Art.Rgt.7 or just Batterie 7???? Hopefully, someone will come up with the answer.

Artillerie vor!

Patrick

[Rogerd]

Thanks for the replys!!!

****Just searched the wwiidaybyday.com website and found the star emblem...M.G.Btl. 10. Now this really puts a monkey wrench in the works!

I have already seen the star emblem on wwiidaybyday.com when I searched the forum. I read in another thread that the information of this site came from a book. In the second edition of this book they mention that the star emblem was wrongly placed as M.G.Btl.10. But the thread does not mention what the star emblem stands for.

I'll try to find the thread again...

[Rogerd]

More opinions?

[overthetop]

I/17 definitely for 1st battery, Artillery Regiment 17. German military were very precise with abbreviations, and unless otherwise noted or for certain units, the second number stood for regiment.

Not sure of star, will research more. Possibly tactical sign of the 17th Infantry Division to which this this Rgt. belonged. Formed in the 1st Wave 1934-35, it didn't stay in one place long and fought from Poland, France, central Russia, and finally back to Poland.

The Kasino indicates Officers Club or Mess. Soldat kassino was usually penned for EM. The sign likely showed where the officer's club was, within the battalion or Regiment, and happened to be in 1st battery. Or was a tongue-in-cheek (yes, Germans had a keen sense of humor) humor sign showing maybe a few battle worn tents, or zeltbahns for the "officer's club"'.

IMO also read the other sign as "Battery Chef ( or Boss)", which would explain the Kassino on the other one found together. Maybe???

Rare signs for sure as most got blown up, discarded, or burned for heat.

regards
Randy