SS NCO Research-- Danzig Cross Connection?

[jwburchell]

A medal award case recently given to me by a friend in Germany contained a small clipping from a wartime German newspaper in November 1941. It expresses thanks from the family of Emil Kanzler to all who have offered sympathy upon the "Heldentod" (heroic death) of their only son: SS-Rottenfuehrer (Corporal) Herbert Kanzler. It is my understanding that the medal (Danziger Kreuz, 2.Klasse-1939) was once awarded to this man.

In researching the forum, the list of recipients of the Danzig Cross (almost exclusively SS) posted by forum member Thierry Tixier last year does not include Kanzler's name among the 35 almost exclusively SS recipients listed there.

My friend Bernie Brule (of SSOCR=SS Officer Computer Research) was not able to assist in this search, since the rank is not Sturmbannfuehrer (Major) or above.

Can anyone assist in finding some record of this SS man for me? I am partucularly interested in knowing if he, in fact, did receive such an award.

Thanks for any advice or assistance which you can offer. John

[J.N. Houterman]

Don't know a thing about the award, but can give a few personal details:

<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Nachname:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Kanzler </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Vorname:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Herbert Erich </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Dienstgrad:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Rottenführer </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Geburtsdatum:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">15.05.1922 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Geburtsort:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Neustädterwald </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Todes-/Vermisstendatum:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">26.09.1941 </TD></TR><TR><TD class=headtabelle width="36%">Todesort:</TD><TD class=bodytabelle width="64%">Lushno</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>


Cheers,

Hans

[jwburchell]

Thank you, Hans. This is very helpful. Hope that someone else can help to verify the award particulars. Best regards from Canada! John

[jwburchell]

SS-Rottenfuehrer: Herbert Kanzler

Based upon the fact that SS-Rottenfuehrer Herbert Erich Kanzler was reported missing or killed-in-action at Lushno on 26.09.1941, I believe that he may have been a member of the III Batallion, 4th SS-Totenkopf Regiment formed in Berlin in October 1938, members of which were secretly assigned for service in the SS-Heimwehr Danzig (SS-Totenkopf Sturmbanne "Gotze").

When the HD was dissolved on September 29, 1939, members were transferred to Dachau for incorporation (in December, 1939) into the SS- Infanterie-Regiment 3 of the 3rd SS Division.

Later, under the command of SS-Obergruppenfuehrer Theodor Eicke, troops of the SS-"Totenkopf" Division, participated in the Soviet/German battle at Lushnow September 24-27, 1941 in which there were massive casualties - one of whom was almost certainly Kanzler, since that is where he was reported as missing and/or killed.

I am hoping that some of these details can be confirmed, as they may help in the search to confirm that he was a recipient of the Danziger Kreuz. If anyone can assist, I would be most grateful.

Thanks,
John

[Stephan Wahl]

Oh my God. I just sent a text message to my mother who is visiting my Grandparents in Germany right now. She is going to ask my Grandfather if he knew this man. You see, my grandfather not only was in the 3rd SSTK Oberbayern, but was wounded between the dates listed Sept 24-27th at Lushno. It's just a few miles away from Opotcka. He told us that their division came under heavy shelling as they were moving through the forests. He also said that of the hundred or so people in his regiment, he was one of only a handful to make it out of the woods alive. His elbow was shredded by wood shrapnel and was fixed at a perminent 90 degree angle by the field doctor.


He may have, with an emphasis on MAY HAVE witnessed this mans death. We'll stay in touch. I may be asking if you would want to part with this item.

[jwburchell]

Reviving and refreshing this thread with new information:

The same friend from whom I received the award case and newspaper clipping some 15 years ago, just gave me the "Erkennungsmarke" (aka: "Hundemarke") from the father (presumably) of the SS man referenced above. It was already broken into two pieces and appears to be an ID tag as worn by German soldiers during WWII.

One can see that Emil Kanzler was born in 1892 in Neudorf.Elbing and would have been 47 years old at the outbreak of WWII in 1939. He may have also served in the military during WWI, then being 22 years old in 1914.

My research, thus far, on other markings ("E. K. M. G. Abt. I" and "RJR 210 II MGK 219") appear to indicate that Emil Kanzler belonged to "Reserveinfanterieregiment" (Reserve Infantry Regiment 210) in a "Machinengewehrkompanie" (Machine-Gun Company 219).

I hope that members will find this to be of interest. All comments and feedback will be appreciated.

John

[Gerdan]

The ID tag is typical of WWI with full name birth date and address.

Gerdan

[morel5000]

The letters of the ww1 ID are not aligned very well. Could you post it in the imperial forum for authenticity check?

[morel5000]

This is how they should be aligned. I think it is not a ww1 made id tag. I have seen these not aligned character ekm's on ebay recently. In my opinion they are fake. Sorry. Maybe others will chime in and and prove me wrong.

[jwburchell]

Hi Michel:

Thanks for your feedback and critique. As one can read, I was not 100% sure if this tag is WWI or WWII vintage. Nonetheless, given the source and circumstances of how it was acquired, coming out of the basement of a house in Germany where it sat for many years, I am quite certain that - whether WWI or WWII - it is not a fake.

Let's see what others might have to say.

John

[naxos]

Reviving and refreshing this thread with new information:


One can see that Emil Kanzler was born in 1892 in Neudorf.Elbing and would have been 47 years old at the outbreak of WWII in 1939. He may have also served in the military during WWI, then being 22 years old in 1914.

My research, thus far, on other markings ("E. K. M. G. Abt. I" and "RJR 210 II MGK 219")
John

It is a good dog tag of WWI

Kanzler was recruited into Ersatz-Kompanie--Maschinengewehr-Abteilung I after training he was transferred to the second machine-gun company of Reserve-Infanterie-Regiment 210 - Stammrollennummer: 219 (219 is his serial number in RIR210)

.

[morel5000]

Thanks, is that information public? If I would fake an id tag I’ll make sure the content is correct and of a desirable unit.

[naxos]

Thanks, is that information public?

Sorry, not sure what you mean. As for the information, I simply read what is stamped on the dog tag.

I'm 100% sure the tag showed above by jwburchell is original

[Robert Evans]

In reference to the commentary above concerning whether a dogtag from a machine gun company in RJR 210 was desirable, I will categorically state that I would consider it to be very desirable. If authentic, and it certainly looks such to me, then I would really want this in my collection for the following reason:

The MG units of RJR 210 figure very strongly in one of the most historic exploits of any single US soldier of any war. RJR 210, together with Regiments 120 and 125 were defending the heights above Cornay during the Meuse-Argonne attack on October 8, 1918 by the US 82nd Division, of which Cpl. (later Sgt.) Alvin C, York as a squad leader of G. Company, 328th Regiment, virtually by himself captured 4 officers and 132 men of the defenders, while killing about 20 others. He was awarded the Medal of Honor and is generally regarded to be the most distinguished US combat soldier of the war.

It would be of interest to research the soldier of the dogtag, to learn if he survived even the day of this battle, let alone the war.

[jwburchell]

Thank you for your feedback, Robert.

As regards the soldier named on this tag, please see the response here: http://des.genealogy.net/search/show/8304432

as posted by Forum member "ODW" in this thread:

http://dev.wehrmacht-awards.com/foru...49#post8602449

Regards,
John