Downed Luftwaffe Pilot ID

[Ron Weinand]

If one knows the location of the shooting down of an ME109 and the month and year. The pilot parachuted out and was captured, can one ID the pilot? I have the swastika from the tail of his plane and know the month, year and town where he went down.
Ron Weinand

[Ian Jewison]

Hi Ron,

There is a possibility with the month and location he could be tracked down in the After the Battle books "Blitz then and Now" and "Battle of Britain".

If you either post the info or PM me I can take a look tonigt when I get home.

/Ian

[Ron Weinand]

Vet's Story

The veteran states that the ME109 was shot down in March 1943 at Bizerte, North Africa, and the pilot parachuted into captivity of US Forces.
Any help will be appreciated.
Ron Weinand

[Ron Weinand]

Tail Section Swastika

here is the piece:

[Ian Jewison]

Right, it will not be in the books I mentioned as they are UK and Europe related....I have a few unit history books that were in Tunisia.....it's a case of finding out which units were there...JG 27, JG 53 and JG 77 I believe were in the area at the time.

Again, I'm away from my references so will try at the weekend.

/Ian

[Johnny R]

There also should be records from the USAAF units if it was shot down by Americans, the unit that captured the pilot may also mention him or have photos if you can figure out which division etc. it was.

[Ron Weinand]

I have a couple of collectors telling me that the back green paint shade is attributed to JG53. Also, it is definately from an ME109 due to the rivet pattern. Comments?
Ron Weinand

[Ian Jewison]

I have a couple of collectors telling me that the back green paint shade is attributed to JG53. Also, it is definately from an ME109 due to the rivet pattern. Comments?
Ron Weinand

That sounds about right.....I will try and check the unit history when I get home............unless someone beats me to it!

[Alan Smith]

Ron,

I strongly suspect that the ME109 in question was shot down by the British RAF. I have a very good friend who was a USAAC pilot flying P-40's in North Africa during this time frame. His unit (57th F.G) was attached to and under the command of British forces (as were, I believe, all American air forces in theater at the time).

Per my friend, the only American fighters in theater at that time were P-40's, which were not deemed sufficient to engage in dogfights with the German and/or Italian fighters. Thus, the American units flew in a ground support role attacking German and Italian troops, vehicles, supplies, etc., with RAF fighters (usually Sptifires) flying top cover to keep the German and Italian fighters off of the P-40's. Thus, my friend (Walter Henson, Jr. of Jackson, MS) indicates that it was the British fighters who typically engaged in the dogfights over North Africa and would get to shoot down German aircraft, as the role the Americans played very rarely brought them in contact with enemy fighters.

Here is a link to the 57th F.G., if anyone is interested:

http://www.57thfightergroup.org/

Nice piece and I look forward to seeing how the research progresses.

Alan

[merdock]

Hi All,
I know very little on this subject but a friend of mine has a combat diary to a RAF squadron bassed in Africa flying initially P40,s and it it are several references to the downing of Bf109f's can't remember how many but i'll ask him for some details of dates ,units etc it may help.
all the best merdock

[WalterB]

Ron,

I strongly suspect that the ME109 in question was shot down by the British RAF. I have a very good friend who was a USAAC pilot flying P-40's in North Africa during this time frame. His unit (57th F.G) was attached to and under the command of British forces (as were, I believe, all American air forces in theater at the time).

Per my friend, the only American fighters in theater at that time were P-40's, which were not deemed sufficient to engage in dogfights with the German and/or Italian fighters. Thus, the American units flew in a ground support role attacking German and Italian troops, vehicles, supplies, etc., with RAF fighters (usually Sptifires) flying top cover to keep the German and Italian fighters off of the P-40's. Thus, my friend (Walter Henson, Jr. of Jackson, MS) indicates that it was the British fighters who typically engaged in the dogfights over North Africa and would get to shoot down German aircraft, as the role the Americans played very rarely brought them in contact with enemy fighters.

Here is a link to the 57th F.G., if anyone is interested:

http://www.57thfightergroup.org/

Nice piece and I look forward to seeing how the research progresses.

Alan

Interesting. Nevertheless, this aircraft could very well have been shot down by US anti-aircraft fire (or any other type of US fire).

[FLiPSiDE]

Well the USAAF used P-38 as well as the P-40, and from the USAAF chronological history it says that P-38's were used as escorts for bombers when on missions against targets in Tunisia and would engage Bf109's.

January 1943
==========

EASTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Twelfth Air Force):
In Tunisia, B-17s bomb the harbor and shipping at La Goulette. Escorting
P-38s and Bf 109s engage in air battle, each side losing two aircraft. A-20s
and DB-7s, with fighter escorts, consecutively raid Sousse harbor. DB-7s
again hit the harbor. B-26s with fighter protection, the the bridge north of El
Djem. Fighters fly escort, patrol and reconnaissance missions, attacking enemy
vehicles and aircraft. Several trucks and fighters are claimed destroyed.

If you go here: http://www.milhist.net/usaaf/mto43a.html it has a chronological log of Allied air missions and specifically mentions Bizerte in entries dated March of 1943.

Here is one of the entries:

March 23 1943
==============
WESTERN MEDITERRANEAN (Northwest African Air Force):
In Tunisia during the night of 22/23 March, RAF Wellingtons hit El Maou
Airfield near Sfax. During the day, B-17's bomb shipping in Bizerte harbor.
Fighters fly reconnaissance and patrol, bomb and strafe trucks, tanks, and
troops near Bir Zallujah, hit tanks and trucks east of Mezzouna and Maknassy,
and east of El Guettar, where the enemy ground forces are making thrusts toward
the town.

[Johnny R]

Americans were flying Spitfires and P-38 Lightings. They shot down many airfcraft on search and destroy missions as well as escort. You would need to check both RAF and US sources.

[Andrew Arthy]

Bf 109 lost near Bizerta, March 1943

Hi,

The main Bf 109-equipped unit based in northern Tunisia in March 1943 was Jagdgeschwader 53. A reconnaissance Staffel equipped with the Bf 109, 2.(H)/Aufklarungsgruppe 14, was also based in northern Tunisia at that time.

Therefore the aircraft probably came from one of these two units.

A possible J.G. 53 loss was as follows:

25 March 1943, Lt. Hans Möller of 1./J.G. 53 was shot down by anti-aircraft fire north of Beja, and crashed on the road to Abiod. He was taken prisoner. He had been flying Bf 109 G-4 Werk Nummer 15 073, marked 'Black 5 + -'.

A possible 2.(H)/14 loss was as follows:

2 March 1943, Hptm. Adolf Warmbold was shot down at 17:10 in combat with British fighters, and taken prisoner near Souk el Khemis. He was flying Bf 109 F-4 Werk Nummer 7517 marked '6 + '


PS - The USAAF operated not only P-40s, but also P-38s, P-39s, and Spitfires in Tunisia in 1942 and 1943.

Cheers,
Andrew Arthy