"Order of Battle" Question...

[fknorr]

The 14. Infantry Division had a Pioneer Batallion 14.

The 174th Reserve Division in Poland had a Reserve Pioneer Batallion 14.

Is a "reserve" battalion the same as a "replacement" battallion or are they different?

I am thinking different for when the 174th Reserve Division was disbanded it was absorbed by the 26th Infantry Division, not the 14th.

If different, am I to assume that the 14. Infantry Division had a Pioneer Battallion 14 AND a Pioneer Ersatz Battalion (company?) 14? Then the 174th Reserve Division had a Reserve Pioneer Batallion 14. and also a Reserve Pioneer Ersatz Battalion (company?) 14?

If different, why two units numbered 14 to two separate divisions? The 174th Reserve Division also had Reserve Artillery Battalion 14 and The 14. Infantry Division had a Artillery Batallion 14.

[fknorr]

Three days, thirteen looks, no responses...wow.

Has everyone flown the coop?
Vacation?
Lack of interest?
Too tough of a question?
Too easy a question?

[deradler1]

From the German Army Handbook TM 30-451

ORIGINAL AFFILIATION SYSTEM. The three replacement training battalions corresponding to the three infantry regiments of a field division were controlled by an infantry replacement training regimental staff (Grenadier-Ersatz-Regiment—Gr.Ers.Rgt.) bearing the number of the division. Thus, the 2d, 23d, and 44th Infantry Regiments, belonging to the 11th Infantry Division, were represented by the 2d, 23d, and 44th Infantry Replacement Training Battalions controlled by the 11th Infantry Replacement Training Regimental Staff at Allenstein in Wehrkreis I, the home station of the division. Replacement training regimental staffs usually were commanded by colonels.

The replacement training regimental staff also controlled from three to five infantry specialist replacement training companies which provided the personnel for the infantry howitzer companies, antitank companies, signal sub-units, engineer platoons, and mounted platoons of the three infantry field regiments.

The other components of the field division—the artillery regiment, reconnaissance battalion, antitank battalion, engineer battalion, and signal battalion, were affiliated in a similar way with replacement training units of their respective arms back in the Wehrkreis from which they came.

All the artillery replacement training battalions in any Wehrkreis were controlled by two or more artillery replacement training regimental staffs bearing the numbers of artillery field regiments originally raised in that Wehrkreis. The replacement training battalions for the smaller divisional components likewise bore the numbers of some of the corresponding field units from the Wehrkreis, but usually one such replacement training battalion would provide replacements for the corresponding field battalions of several divisions. Altogether over 50 types of regular replacement training units existed.

[Simon O.]

Fran

No, the two are not the same though the 'reserve' btl. was formed from the 'ersatz'.

what happened was the ersatz btl. was divided in Sept.42, the new reserve btl. being 'mobilized' and sent off on security duties in Poland with the Ersatz btl. remaining in Weissenfels, It was a way of stretching resources.


Res.Pi.Btl.14 eventually became Heeres Pionier Btl.751 in sept.44 and Pi.Ers.Btl14 changed it's name to 'ausbildungs' in April 45 and got mobilized.

There were also of course plenty of other pionier formations numbered 14 too, inlcuding Pionier Btl. 14 (L)

By the way you'll find plenty of other field and reserve units with the same numbers. For example GJR 136, 137, 138 and 139 all had 'twin' reserve regiments split off from their ersatz units and formed in '43

[fknorr]

Fran

No, the two are not the same though the 'reserve' btl. was formed from the 'ersatz'.

what happened was the ersatz btl. was divided in Sept.42, the new reserve btl. being 'mobilized' and sent off on security duties in Poland with the Ersatz btl. remaining in Weissenfels, It was a way of stretching resources.


Res.Pi.Btl.14 eventually became Heeres Pionier Btl.751 in sept.44 and Pi.Ers.Btl14 changed it's name to 'ausbildungs' in April 45 and got mobilized.

There were also of course plenty of other pionier formations numbered 14 too, inlcuding Pionier Btl. 14 (L)

By the way you'll find plenty of other field and reserve units with the same numbers. For example GJR 136, 137, 138 and 139 all had 'twin' reserve regiments split off from their ersatz units and formed in '43

Thanks Simon!
That is exactly what I was looking for.
Next question is what references did this information come from so I can look this up for myself?

Thanks again.

[Simon O.]

I was going from Tessin but the same information can be got from the Lexikon der Wehrmacht
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...PiErsBat14.htm

[fknorr]

I was going from Tessin but the same information can be got from the Lexikon der Wehrmacht
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...PiErsBat14.htm

I need to get me that Tessin series...

Thanks again Simon.