Feldherrnhalle - elite or not?

[Mike Bollow]

Greetings -

Over the past few month smy interest in the Feldherrnhalle military unit has grown tremendously, and I have read lots of threads here on the subject. What I see quite often and it really frustrates me is the disbelief that FHH was elite as compared to GD or HG.

Out of the three, only GD was formed as an elite division per se. HG was a plaything for the fat Field Marshall's ego, and to compete with his arch rival Himmler. FHH was formed by the SA for the same reason... to compete with the WSS.

The only reason in my mind that FHH doesn't have the "legendary" status that HG and GD enjoy is because they were thrown in to unwinnable battles all the time. It's a lot less interesting to people I guess if you had an unlucky battle history.

The original men of the FHH had MORE military training than their HG or GD counterparts, and were essentially already soldiers before their 1st day thanks to the training provided by the SA. They had three Oaks leaves recipients, 27 Knight’s Cross recipients, 39 DkiG recipients, 3 DkiS recipients and 23 honor roll clasp recipients... who out there still says they aren't elite?

All the best - Mike

[Larry deZeng]

45 threads:

http://www.google.com/custom?hl=en&c...nhalle&spell=1

Isn't the term "elite" subjective? I think if you want to argue that the division was elite you are entitled to do so.

[Mike Bollow]

Larry -

So you are saying "this topic has been talked about too much."

Ok...

[Larry deZeng]

Larry -
So you are saying "this topic has been talked about too much."
Ok...

Not at all. I am just saying that opinions vary and that you may have some difficulty finding others with the depth of knowledge, interest and sufficient passion, time and energy to engage in protracted argument with you on this rather narrow subject. I think it is one of those arguments that is infinite.

[Mike Bollow]

'I think it is one of those arguments that is infinite.'

Agreed. I guess a better question would have been:

Does anybody disagree that FHH was INTENDED to be an elite division?

I think that if they hadn't been decimated twice on the Eastern Front they would have built up a strong cadre of experienced troops and performed even better than they did (and they performed quite well).

Even though people don't seem to be as excited about FHH collecting as they are HG or GD, I don't see that reflected in dealer prices! FHH is just as expensive as their more beloved counterparts... too bad for me!

Mike

[Larry deZeng]

Given Hitler's antipathy toward the SA as opposed to his preference for the SS, wouldn't that alone have prevented FHH from ever attaining "elite" status during the war?

[Mike Bollow]

Hitler's apathy and the general feeling that the SA had fallen out of favor played a big role, certainly. I do think though that performance in battle was most important and Germany needed all the heroes she could muster. If they hadn't been encircled and destroyed twice, maybe their status (at home and among their peers) would have been much higher than it wound up being.

oh well...

[Larry deZeng]

I've tried to get something going here for you, but the WAF membership, with a few exceptions, are not very interested in history. They would rather show each other their papers and photos and forego the deeper stuff. I think discussions on Axis History Forum and Feldgrau would be much more productive for you.

Good luck,

--Larry

[Carson]

I very much enjoyed reading this thread. I was unaware of their battle history and had always considered the unit to be similar to the US Marine unit at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier. Thanks for the info and yes, the shoulder boards, cyphers and FHH regalia are very pricey.

[Mike Bollow]

True story! Thanks anyway Larry.

Back to the "is this fake?" posts!

All the best - Mike

[Mike Bollow]

Yes Carson - it was a combat formation that ultimately grew to be "Panzerkorps Feldherrnhalle" and had several smaller FHH units in other formations. There is only one readily available book on the subject in English and you can buy it on ebay- Feldherrnhalle: Forgotten Elite.

It's a pretty amazing story, although a bit confusing because the unit designations changed so often.

Mike

[Carson]

Thanks Mike, I look forward to reading this.

One of the awesome things about history is learning all the different faucets of it and one story usually leads into another.

BTW, have you posted any of your FHH collection? I would love to see anything you have.

[Lee Luke]

Thanks Mike, I look forward to reading this.

One of the awesome things about history is learning all the different faucets of it and one story usually leads into another.

BTW, have you posted any of your FHH collection? I would love to see anything you have.

I think Larry is right , that most guys like to post pics and ask about fakes. I read WAF posts everyday because I will learn something and I love history.

I have a FHH soldbuch that I enjoy and I am interested in that unit. Info is kinda vague on this unit compared to others. Also, FHH items are always seem to be high priced.

[Simon O.]

As Larry says, the idea of what's 'elite' is highly subjective but i'd like to throw in a few things to think about.

Were FHH units equipped differently or given preference over other formations of the same type?

Did FHH units perform that much better than similar type units without a fancy name?

Were FHH unit members trained differently from their peers?

Did FHH units have a higher standard of recruit than it's peers?

If the only difference is a high proportion of former SA members, how does this make them a military elite?

If numbers of high awards are a measure of 'eliteness' then it should be pointed out that those you quote are from various FHH named units not just a single division. For example some of the decorations earned by members of the 13 Pz.Div. are mixed in there but not all earned by that division.
So if you're contending that this total is evidence of their 'elite' status then we must then conclude that the 4 Pz.Div. to give one example was 'more elite' than all FHH named units combined.

[Mike Bollow]

Simon -

I think the INTENTION was for FHH to be elite, and with the para-military training the SA offered, the plan was a sound one. As for issuance of 1st rate equipment, I don't know. I would guess they did based on pictures I have seen of FHH equipment at the front. When 21pz was rebuilt in France in 43-44 they had to make their own assault guns and such by combining left over French tanks and used cannons. I have yet to see a picture of FHH with such "erzatz" equipment, but I am no expert.

Excellent questions - I wish I had all the answers!!

Mike