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**Larry deZeng** · 03-18-2008, 12:32 PM

Hi JL -

Your question is so basic, yet so complicated due to a multitude of variations and exceptions, that I think you need to invest in a couple of handbooks on the subject. Here are some suggestions (assuming you don't read German):

Booth, Terrence. Handbook of WWII German Military Symbols & Abbreviations 1943-45. Trowbridge/Wilts: Helion & Co., 2001.
Davies, W.J.K. German Army Handbook. New York: Arco Publishing, 1973, 1977 et seq.
[United States War Department]. Handbook on German Military Forces. Technical Manual TM-E 30-451, 15 March 1945. GPO WashDC, 1945. (reprinted by several commercial publishers since 1960).

If you know how to use the SEARCH function on web sites, you can go to Axis History Forum and Feldgrau and search for this subject, which has been discussed on those web sites thousands of times over the past 10 years. You can also try searching right here on Wehrmacht Awards. I would even bet a Google search would turn up a lot of information. I found one right away:

http://hem.fyristorg.com/robertm/nor..._army_org.html

--Larry

**ChrisA** · 03-18-2008, 02:20 PM

Hello JL

A basic overview. German Infanterieregimenter were numbered and organised as follows.

The regiment had a unique arabic number 1, 2, 3 etc...
A Inf.Rgt. consisted depending on the time in the war either of two or three battalions which had romanic numbers I., II., III.
Just independent battalions had unique arabic numbers.

So each infantry regiment in the Wehrmacht had a I., II. and III.Bataillon.
The companies in each regiment were numbered through which means
1.-4.Kompanie in I.Bataillon, 5.-8.Kompanie in II.Bataillon, 9.-12.Kompanie in III.Bataillon.
Additionally a regiment had a 13., 14.Kompanie directly under command.
Usually each 4th company (4., 8., 12.Kp.) was a M.G.Kompanie, the 13.Kp. was the Anti-tank company, 14.Kp. the infantry gun company.
Additionally a regiment had a Pionier-platoon, signal-platoon and a Reiterzug.
All these details changed during the war but to give you a standard view.

In the KStN section of my site you can find details how bvarious companies were organised.
http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn/kstnmain.htm

Here you can also have a look how a division and the regiments within were organised
http://chrito.users1.50megs.com/kstn...divpolen39.htm

hope this helps,
Christoph

**Jean-Loup** · 03-18-2008, 03:48 PM

Thanks for the details guys, it is now quite clear.
The thing that has been confusing me is this specific details: "Just independent battalions had unique arabic numbers."

Res Inf Reg 239 is one regiment I am interested in for example. I know it was composed of three battallions: I, II and III.
But...
Depending one what documents your read, and who you talk to, they are sometimes refering to Bat I or II or III, or sometimes refering to Bat 372, 327, 444, etc...

So if I now understand correctly, I, II, and III were made up from "independant batallions", in this case maybe 372, 327 and 444...

Lets say that Bat 372 was also Bat II of the Res Gren Reg 239. What would the companies within Bat 372 be called? Would they be called 4, 5, 6, and 7?

JL

**Larry deZeng** · 03-18-2008, 05:58 PM

JL -

http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...nter/IR239.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...nter/GR239.htm
http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...onen/106ID.htm
http://www.axishistory.com/index.php?id=2196

Go through the above carefully and look for your numbers 327, 372 and 444. I did not see them, do you? Then where did they come from? If anyone is to help you and further, they will need exactly where you got these 327, 372 and 444 numbers from and exactly what was said about them. There were Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillonen numbered 327, 372 and 444, but they do not appear to have had any connection to IR 239 or 106. ID. Furthermore, all three of these remained in Germany. Had they been absorbed en masse into IR 239, which they were not, they would have instantly lost their separate identity and been renumbered Bataillonen I, II and III.

**ChrisA** · 03-18-2008, 07:09 PM

JL.. you should have said that you are looking for informations about Replacement units. That is a total different topic than field units!!!

Replacement units (Ersatz- etc..) had a totally different organisation. But the numbering is still the same. ThHe Inf.Ers.Egt.329 was the command structure for Infanterie-Ersatz-Bataillone 327, 372, 444.
Each of these battalions had 1., 2., 3.Kompanie.

\Christoph

**Jean-Loup** · 03-19-2008, 12:22 PM

Larry, here is a link (that I just found) showing that those battalions were in Res Gren Regt 239: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...liederungR.htm
As you can see, those battalion numbers (372, 327...) are still used when they are attached to the 239th Reg. It also clearly shows that those battalions were sent to France.

Reading through Lexikon der Wehrmacht a bit makes things clearer, but it is still unclear what battalion numbers (372, etc) were acting as what battalion (I, II, etc) in the Res Gren Regt 239...

JL

**Larry deZeng** · 03-19-2008, 01:04 PM

Originally posted by Jean-Loup View Post

Larry, here is a link (that I just found) showing that those battalions were in Res Gren Regt 239: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...liederungR.htm
As you can see, those battalion numbers (372, 327...) are still used when they are attached to the 239th Reg. It also clearly shows that those battalions were sent to France.
Reading through Lexikon der Wehrmacht a bit makes things clearer, but it is still unclear what battalion numbers (372, etc) were acting as what battalion (I, II, etc) in the Res Gren Regt 239...
JL

As Christoph said, "Reserve" is a whole different ball game. Your initial question concerned the active IR 239, at least Christoph and I both thought it did. That's why I wanted you to explore around on Lexikon yourself. If you checked the menu for infantry regiments you saw that there were quite a few different types.

Yes, Res.Inf.Rgt'er and Res.Gren.Rgt'er were different from the active regiments in that their reserve battalions retained their independent numbers. These reserve infantry/grenadier battalions never lost those separate identities while assigned to their Res.Inf.Rgt. or Res.Gren.Rgt. However, often (or usually?) the regiment would identify itself as (for example purposes only):

Res.Infanterie-Rgt. 361
I. (Res.Inf.Btl. 132)
II. (Res.Inf.Btl. 197)
III. (Res.Inf.Btl. 264)

To find out which Res.Inf.Btl. took which Roman numeral, you will have to consult some history books that deal with the 148. Res.Gren.Div. in France or go to BA-MA Freiburg and check the division's surviving records. All Tessin says is:

Res.Gren.Rgt. 239 Montauban (Btl. 327, 372, 444).

That's for fall 1943. I presume those numbers runs in the order of I, II and III, but that's just a guess.

--Larry

**Jean-Loup** · 03-19-2008, 02:12 PM

"Your initial question concerned the active IR 239, at least Christoph and I both thought it did. "

If you guys look at post number 4, you see that I wrote "Res" in front of Reg 239 both times I refered to it. However this misunderstanding only emphasises and better illustrates the complexities of the German system, thus fitting very well in this thread.

"Yes, Res.Inf.Rgt'er and Res.Gren.Rgt'er were different from the active regiments in that their reserve battalions retained their independent numbers. "

OK, then everything is clear for me now.
I believe I already sent a letter to Freiburg in the past and they said that they usualy had no documentation concerning reserve units late in the war.
I have several period documents about Res Gren Reg 239, but they either refer to Battalions with roman numerals, or either with arab. Never both on the documents I have.
But I did talk to a german vet who said he was in 10th Co of one of those battalions. I suspect that would mean his battalion was III in the regiment in that case? Would that sound like a good assumption to you guys?
By cross checking the various info on the documents I have, I should be able to figure out who was I, II and III.

Anyways, thanks for the help already given, everything is much clearer then it was before.
I noted that after the allied landing the 148 Reserve Division and Regimenten 8 and 239 were disbanded, and active regiments 281, 285, and 286 were created out of all the various battalions. I guess this is because the allied landing forcibly changed the 148th Res Div into a combat unit.
When I sent a letter to freiburg, I was asking about Res Reg 239 and 8. MAybe it would be worth sending an other letter asking about the histories of active units 281, 285 and 286?

JL

**Jean-Loup** · 03-19-2008, 02:26 PM

Looking at the composition of Res Gren REg 8 has finaly explained why I found a greatcoat with green pipping in the mountains near Nice: Reg 8 contained a battalion of Jaegers: http://www.lexikon-der-wehrmacht.de/...liederungR.htm

Attached Files

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**Larry deZeng** · 03-19-2008, 05:40 PM

"Your initial question concerned the active IR 239, at least Christoph and I both thought it did. "
If you guys look at post number 4, you see that I wrote "Res" in front of Reg 239 both times I refered to it.

Our replies in posts #2 and #3 were to your post #1. That's what I meant by initial.

But I did talk to a german vet who said he was in 10th Co of one of those battalions. I suspect that would mean his battalion was III in the regiment in that case? Would that sound like a good assumption to you guys?

Yes. Typically 9. - 12. Kpn. would comprise III. Bataillon.

When I sent a letter to freiburg, I was asking about Res Reg 239 and 8. MAybe it would be worth sending an other letter asking about the histories of active units 281, 285 and 286?

No. The German Army's regimental records were virtually all destroyed when Allied air raids on the Berlin area hit the Heeresarchiv in Potsdam and burned out an entire wing of the building. That was the wing holding the regimental records as well as those of units smaller than a regiment. In most cases, divisional records stop at the end of 1943, although I have found some that extended into spring 1944. So what researchers generally have to do is go to the next level or two to cover the first 9 months of 1944. Generally, from 1 Oct 44 to the end of the war you would have to use Heeresgruppe, OKH and OKW records.

So, you should go back to 148. Res.Div. on Lexikon where you will find a table that will tell you which Korps and Armee the Division belonged to. Then you can go to Freiburg and use those records, or you can go to the Sturmpanzer web site ( http://www.sturmpanzer.com/Default.a...1&item=2&sec=1 ) and use the NARA Guides to see if there are microfilmed records for your Korps and/or Armee. If there are, then you can buy them from NARA WashDC for $65.00 per roll.

--Larry

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